In my opinion getting rid of number limited editions was a really bad idea. Cassie is an example of a sculptor who realizes this and is trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Hope others will do the same, may help. Numbered editions make it harder. This seller has sold/for sale 3 Huxley’s with no COA’s bought off eBay to save money. How many is okay for her to reborn like that before we say okay we our comfortable saying you may dealing in fakes? 10…15? Dave is doing what he can but he needs help badly. A lot of artist think like this one does. As it stands because he cannot say for sure they are fakes, he has asked her to put a disclaimer on her listing that the doll is supposed to have a COA and why she does not have it, but she is allowed to keep the listing up. So again we are expected to compete against artists that are selling fakes, paying less for the kit and in some cases charging more than most for the finished doll. I haven’t gone looking and don’t plan to but I am betting that site is over run with fakes as we speak, I’m afraid to look.
I am not a collector but I do believe it is important to recognize this as an art form. I think the real difference from her thinking and mine is I have integrity, honesty, care about all forms of art and believe art is important for all humanity. Many folks think nothing about this, it really is about the money that can be made with no regard towards the integrity and honesty towards others. I carry this belief with me at all times, I care for fairness even kindness for all. This is not to say that I haven’t unintentionally bought things that were probably copies of someone’s else’s hard work, but I have a better understanding now of how this is done. So there certainly is room for some people to make purchases of counterfeit reborn dolls not knowing this, but I would think anyone painting reborns for any length of time as she has would be in the know.
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Agreed ^^
Everyone can be given a chance. Everyone messes up and needs to be cut some slack if they didn’t know any better.
I posted this on my FB and wanted to post here too. I know it’s alot but I wanted to share for those who feel like I do. Thx.
I have been doing alot of thinking over night about the fake kit situation on rebornsdotcom. Hardly slept at all. I feel like somethings got to give. I am just not okay with having to abide by one set of rules while others get to abide by their own and I can’t be the only one. I am not sure what the answer is. I put a post out to help get sculptors on board to help Dave, sent out some emails and the response was rather dismal. So far Ping, Natali and Samantha have offered to help. My hope was sculptors could get with Dave to create a directory he could call on when he is faced with a dilemma over fakes. He could email that particular sculptor and get some input. It is early yet, some others may come round but I really don’t think most of the sculptors are interested.
The current situation of the honor system will not work on the site if many artist believe any kit or doll is fair game to reborn regardless of where it came from. We have seen that. Relying on those that feel fakes have no place on the site to report them isn’t working either. The timidness of willing to report, possibly getting it wrong and angering a colleague(s) for inquiring is enough to have allowed these fake Huxleys (and countless other dolls I am sure) to remain on the sight competing for buyers alongside the original sculpts for months. And of course we all have our own lives and are busy creating or whatever to spend precious time battling it out for not with our fellow artists over all this unpleasantness. As I have said before, I came across the fake Huxley’s by chance when searching for the sculpt but I am sure they have crossed my screen when I have been on reborns in the past week looking at dolls and never thought anything of it, so I am guilty of this too. Again I don’t have the answers but I do know that because Dave is not of the industry he will continue make many wrong calls when it comes to fakes on the site, especially without help. And although I appreciate Dave saying knock offs are not allowed on the site, if this ever becomes to much of a headache for him he may just drop the no knock off requirement altogether. He is not under any obligation to police the industry for us. I am sure he is about business and making money above all so it is in his best interest to keep as many sellers on the site as he can.
We have been pushed out of eBay and Etsy because our art does not sell up against the countless fakes and the fees have made it even more impossible to sustain. That was what was so great about Reborns site, our own little piece of the pie where our art could be offered unencumbered by fakes and have reasonable fees. But that is not going to be the case and in fact is not the case now. An artist that has a sold out LE kit to sell thinking they will be able to capitalize on that is now out of luck. Your LE means natta. Taking the Huxley situation as an example, an artist of good faith has a sold out LE kit they paid $120 for to reborn. They are happy thinking they will use the fact it is sold out as a selling point and the competition for a buyer when it comes to someone looking for a Huxely doll will be limited to those that have an authentic kit. Some other artists on the site however are selling Huxley kits they bought off eBay w/ no COA for $35 a pop. They are free to reborn countless fake Huxley kits because no one can prove it is a fake, even when they admit where they bought the kit, that it has no COA and show that their world view when it comes to authentic kits is “I don’t give a rats about COAs or authenticity.” A buyer with little knowledge of the industry will see fakes are not allowed on the site and think they are safe from buying a fake when indeed they are not. What happens when they find out from another when they show their doll off online or in person and realize they have been sold a fake on the site? Or are told to leave the floor of a doll show because they brought a fake doll they thought was authentic that they bought on the site? How can we be insulted then when a buyer does email us for proof of purchase or we are asked where the kit came from in the current state the site is in??
Yes it is about the art over the money but we also need to be able to sell our dolls. How is it not going to build resentment in artists if some are made to pay 3 times as much for a kit and are limited to how many of one particular sculpt they can reborn no matter how popular it is while others get to pay less then half the cost for the sculpt, reborn as many as they like and sell them on a site that forbids knock offs without consequence?
I have absolutely nothing against the artist at Reborns 909 other that what I have stated about the fakes. As Tom says in You’ve got mail, “It isn’t personal, it’s business.” When Dave forwarded her my concern over these being fakes she called me a bad apple and said reading it was a big waste of her time and that she could care less about COA and authentic kits. That’s fine for her but not for those of us that do care. By calling her out I am hoping to put pressure on her to change her ways. It’s all we got. But as soon as things die down we will be right back to square one until next time unless we collectively take a stand and as they say “Go to the mat” for one and for all to make change.
Thanks for reading. x
I totally agree with you. I was looking last night and see another Huxley from someone else who says she is not the artist listed without a COA. So there is that too, the second hand market which has increased a lot on reborns dot com. That opens up even more room for fakes filtering through. It is very disheartening.
Yes I made that point to Dave as well about the preowned Huxley, and that I was not complaining about that listing because it is a resale and who knows what a non artist knows. And some people just don’t keep the paper work. But the person selling the two Huxleys I was questioning is an artist and I just think you cannot be an artist on her level and not know of the issue surrounding fakes. As long as Dave is allowing preowns to be sold it will be a door for fakes to slip in I’m sure. Is it practical not to let ppl resell their dolls there? I don’t know. Ppl buy and sell and trade to keep their collection interesting. Some buy and find they are not crazy for the kit. As an artist I don’t really dig it because the site is small and I don’t want to compete against my past work for sales, lol. I think we have to pick our battles tho and start with holding artists accountable on the site. Get that under control. people who have sold out LE in their stash should not have to go on there and deal with this kind of situation.
So is he going to let her keep them up? I must have missed something because her response read like an admission of guilt to me…
Yes as of now how it stands on the site is that even tho it is a numbered LE sold out kit w/ no COA known to have been copied, bought off eBay, and is being listed as new by a seasoned artist who admits it could be fake, because she is insisting they also could be real and no one can prove otherwise , except her of course, the listings are allowed to stay up. Crazy town I know. I asked Dave if is was possible to make the rule that in a situation like this a COA should be mandatory, and a listing should not be allowed to remain up, regardless of the excuse if there is no COA. He is open to it if the community agrees. I guess we will see if enough people respond, step out of their comfort zone a bit and weigh in with Dave. It is hard to know considering so many artist feel like this woman here does and others just don’t want to involve themselves in the mess. I totally understand. This really stinks. I am hopeful some changes like this one might be made but again the response has not been enthusiastic.
I’ll message Dave if that’s what it takes?
That would definitely help get the ball rolling if he is hearing from people. He said he may bring it to the forum so I am not sure if he will or not. I would imagine if many write him up to say that situations like this are really unfair to the rest of us who hold authentic sold out sculpts, that he would. I don’t know if others have any ideas. Feel free to chime in. This was just one I had and threw out there to Dave on FB.
I messaged him. I hope others will too. To me it’s not even about that doll anymore…it’s about her whole outlook on it which is choosing to be ok with theft.
Just an update that Ping, Samantha, Natali and now Doris are on board and will set up some tools to help Dave out! 
That’s awesome! Good on you reaching out to them! 
That is great!
He can get their contact info and direct message them if there is ever a dispute on the site involving one of their sculpts being a fake. He has mentioned in the past that it would help if he could talk to the artist of the sculpt in question. Some is better than none I guess. It is still a bit iffy if that will even help after what LTR has said. I agree with her and do think the best thing for starters is changing that COA requirement for at least the sold out LE’s anyway.
This is awesome! Look at how talking about this concern helped get a plan in place to help this ongoing problem with the counterfeits.
The fact Ping is willing to help while dealing with all the crap they are going through with Lifelike Reborns and Toddlers (now Wishingwell reborns) it says a whole lot about Ping and her support for the reborn community.
Does the flange have numbers? Do you have that pic?
