i have been trying to start my kit with a layer of matte before i start painting bc it has become shiney after i goofed on my final varnish layer and had to strip it and start over. i was trying to put a final sealer of satin varnish on this baby but couldnt get it even over the face and head. so i would wipe it off with thinners and wait for it to dry and try again. well after about the 5th time, i noticed that i had taken off some paint layers in some spots from wiping so many times with the thinners and caused a shine. so i stripped the kit instead of trying to fix the spots by repainting and trying to blend and match up the paint. so now, im starting over with blank vinyl, i stripped, washed in hot water and dawn. wiped down with alcohol, then washed with dawn again, and let air dry over night. bc there are shiny spots on the vinyl, im TRYING to start with a layer of matte. but i cannot get it to go on even. i tried using it straight, i thinned with thinning medium, tried with just matte and thinners, so super thin i thought it would have to go on evenly bc i brushed it on in small sections and then used a wedge that i rounded the corners and edges off. but im still left with spots that look caked on or missing in some places. ive tried changed my wedge after each new section, bc its likemy sponge is lifting the matte off of the vinyl in some spots. ive even tried using a wedge with thinners on it to go over and try to even it out, but no luck with that either. i dont know what im doing wrong, i have problems like this with any type of medium that ive tried to use in the past, anybody gotany ideas what im doing wrong and why my mediums arent going on evenly. i pounce until my arm feels like its going to fall off just to take it all off and do it all over again…
help…
Are you taking your mediums and working them on a pallet with your pallet knife before you apply them? If not try this. When you work/stir/mix them on a flat pallet, spreading them out and then working them back together, it has an effect on them that makes them thinner. It is almost like they melt a little or whatever. There is a term for this but I can’t remember what it it is but it is specific to Genesis products. Anyways, it makes it easier to apply the varnishes and such in a thinner layer. Once you have them spread out thin on the pallet you can then pounce your wedge on the product and then pounce the product onto the vinyl piece. You may have to work it a few times on your pallet as you go as well if it starts to stiffen back up. If you do not have a flat pallet go to Walmart or similar place and buy the larger glass plate that you use for pillar candles. They are cheap and work well.
I don’t know if this will help, but if you are using a new wedge without first applying some varnish to it and pouncing the wedge off on a paper towel a little, the dry wedge will remove too much of the product. I thin my matte with thinning medium and a few drops of paint thinner, brush over entire head or limb and then pounce really quickly. Good luck
thank u for your reply. i am working/mixing really well on pallet, i even tried using my fingers to apply after mixing, as i have read it helps melt it down, then pouncing with wedge but no matter what it comes out like i described.
the last few times ive tried, i have been using a new dry wedge, bc i thoight maybe my sponge was getting too caked with the varnish. when u brush it on, do u first put some on your wedge then pounce it off before pouncing out the varnish on your vinyl? ive honestly tried it with a wedge that has been pounced out on the paper towel before ive pounced the vinyl and have got the same result, caked and splotchy looking. grainy is the word im looking for i think. ive tried several different types of sponges as well too, thinking the density had something to do with it. im lost and have no clue cuz i think ive tried everything there is to do. ive been on every forum reading everyones past troubles and experiences with this stuff and i dont have a clue anymore! this is on my presley asleep kit to make things even worse! thanks for your reply
Could you post a picture… maybe that would help and one of these girls with a lot of experience could take a look. I read somewhere that the thinner the matte varnish the smoother it goes on. Also, to mix it two parts matte to one part thinning medium, but I still add a few drops of odorless thinner besides.
i have it stripped now and im trying to decide if i even want to put it on again before i start painting, but if i do, ill see if i can get a good pic to show whats happening. i read on DF, I think it was, someone uses matte thinned way down with thinners and brushes it on then uses a wedge to pounce it out. i figured that would prob work better bc its so thin, i couldnt possibly mess it up by getting it caked on in spots…well i did. i also tried mixing a little matte into my first flesh layer on my first try and it went good until i was almost done and then i noticed areas where it looked like the matte flesh layer o coming off in spots like around the ears and around the bottom of the neck by the creases. i use a thermometer and bake in a nuwave. i baked that first flesh layer mixed with matte for 8 minutes, then flipped and did another 8 minutes at 275. it didnt look chalkyand no paint came off when i tested it after cooling. i probably baked another 6-7 times after that for 9 minutes at 265-275 when i did my mottling, veins and such. then i noticed where it was missing in spots, u can slightly see where the matte is compared to where it was no longer there. so i dont understand after baking the super thin layer of the matte on my first layer could now come off after baking 7-8 times. i hope i made a little bit of sense trying to explain all that!
When it comes to matte varnish and the thinness I use, think of a very watered down skim milk. I use a lot of thinner with a tiny touch of varnish. Maybe a 20 to 1 ratio or even less. I brush it on with a mop brush, pounce and pounce and use a dry mop brush on creases. If an area is still shiny or not taking paint, then I repeat it. Just what works for me. I usually add my skin color to the mixture just to save a layer. Not sure what caused your problem since baking over and over should have set it more. Do you wear gloves? Even on the hand that holds the sponge to prevent oils from your hands from getting on them?
The only other issue I know that can be causing this is if the kit was not cleaned well in spots and had oils on it that makes the paint not stick. I don’t know…
thats what i did, just as you say u do. i take a tiny glob of matte and mix it into my thinners. its really really thin, then brush it on and pounce it with a wedge. i made my thin flesh mix as normal, really thin and added a tad bit of matte in a mixed really well and applied by brush and pounced, pounced and pounced some more, but it doesnt work for me. theres something im not doing right when it comes to this stuff, i just have no idea. i wash well with dawn with a toothbrush , rinse while scrubbing with toothbrush to make sure all soap is off, let dry, wipe with alcohol, then do the washing with dawn all over again, so im pretty sure i cleaned the vinyl good enough…thanks everyone for your help and suggestions
After all that, it should be clean! Mine are lucky to get a quick wash using dish soap rubbed around with my fingers and rinsed. Except for some stripped kits that I had to work more on…I hate stripping!!!
so do i, but so far, its the best thing im good at! and the thing ive done the most in my little over a year of reborning! i think reborning is not for me, even tho i love the painting when things are going right, but everything just seems like its going wrong, ALL THE TIME!
I would put that kit in a paper bag and put it in a closet somewhere for a while. You could try JUST using thinning medium for a base coat and see if that gets you anywhere. That is what I initially used to seal prisma pencil hair between layers and so that you can get the pencils to mark on the vinyl. It does leave just a bit of texture and maybe your paint will stick to it. I didn’t read if you were stripping with straight acetone, but that will damage the vinyl too.
thanks pia, thats what i think ill do, put it away for a bit. ive been trying to root a head for months now so ill just work on that for awhile. ive used just thinning medium as a final coat and it went on fine but left a dewy shine on the kit. i just dont want to add more shine to the vinyl than there already is. if i let the thinning medium dry completly, will it come out shiney after baking? when i used it as a final sealer, i put it in still a bit wet bc i wanted a little dewy look. thanks for the suggestions
For my part, I really don’t like matte varnish at all. I don’t like the texture and I worry that it will crack at a later date (I have heard of this happening after a couple of years). To be honest I’m not sure I’m buying the theory that matte will permanently stick to vinyl if paint will not. It may create a paintable surface coating but I just don’t trust the durability.
If you are having trouble getting the paint to stick, you could try a light sanding with extra fine grit sandpaper. I find this works very well as it creates microscopic burrs on the vinyl that give the paint something to attach to.
oh that scares me to think about sanding my presley asleep!!! but i guess if it is that fine of sand paper then it wouldnt make marks on the vinyl. thanks for that suggestion, i will give it a go on a few test pieces first.
It sounds frightening, but if you can get a 320 grit foam backed sand paper (available at any home improvement store), you will see that it’s actually not very rough at all - just enough to take care of those nasty shiny spots (also great for smoothing out any rough areas on the vinyl if you happen to encounter that problem).
thank you for that, im going to go tomorrow and pick some up.
I stopped having the uneven problem when I stopped brushing it on. Now I think it out really thin and dab it on the sponge then pounce…after the layer has air dried I go over it with my hands to brush off any spots that might have gotten to thick. As for the shinny spots it may be from excessive rubbing. The sand paper should work but be very careful with it…this can ruin your doll quickly!! Hope it all works out for you 
i finally decided to start sanding my presley. i had to strip him again and the vinyl was starting to look brownish and yellow/orange in spots. so i went to thehardware store yesterday and got sanding pad things, medium grit and fine grit. they are thin, with a foam backing and the front is the sanding paper. i also got a few sheets of sand paper, ranging from 320 to 600 grit. i was having problems with shine also and the sanding is taking away the ugly colors i have on the vinyl and it is also getting rid of all the slick, smooth shiney spots!
im having a hard time getting the hard to reach spots on the hands and feet tho. my limbs are coming along great. im still working on getting into all the creases, bc the ones i havent done yet are really shiney and smooth compared to the rest that is all sanded. the head on the other hand has scratch like marks on it from the sand paper. im trying to sand them out with a higher grit paper but it just keeps making new marks as im getting other ones out. they are super fine lines but im afraid once i start painting, they are going to show and the paint is going to get into the marks. did u have this problem at all with these lines showing up on your vinyl when u sanded? im trying to go really lightly with the super fine 400 and 600 grit, but its like buffing the vinyl, making it shine again. the good thing about all this tho is, i sanded down that little extra line (defect) on the side of his nose and u cant see it anymore!