Artist Beware of PayPal Policies!

Baby Talk
1

I have been a seller without one dispute for 15 years up until now.
I have never ever had one complaint about my babies ever!!
I sold a baby to a woman, she received it in great condition, as she admits.
The baby had painted hair, instructions were sent on how to care for her baby.
Over three weeks later, she says paint is now coming off. I have never ever had this happen in all the hundreds of babies with painted hair I have sold. She showed me pictures of babies head all scratched up, clearly she had done some sort damage. She went on to say that this was for her daughter. I clearly told her this was not intended for a child, but an adult collectors doll. I take pics of my babies as they are shipped because as a courtesy for customers I provide shipping insurance and this makes it easier if they have to file a claim. My pics show a beautiful baby unharmed. Despite my misgivings that this was for a child, and they may damage it again, I also offered to fix it if she would ship it to me, she refused.

She then filed a dispute with PayPal. The did nothing to investigate. I told them I had pictures, emails from her stating the doll was fine upon arrival, they did not even care to look at this.
They did not ask her if it was ok upon arrival.
They ruled in her favor because she simply filed a claim.
I have had customers that have sent pictures of babies with painted hair years after, and they still look great. She damaged this baby and now I have to refund her because of PayPals inability to protect the seller. I spoke with them, and they admitted if a claim is filed against a seller, it usually goes to the buyer because they do not except pictures or email as evidence .
If anyone knows a different avenue to receive payment other than PayPal, let me know as I will be closing my account. I cannot afford to spend weeks on a baby to have a scammer damage doll and have myself pay for it.
Sorry for the rant, but be aware of how paypal does not offer us protection from issues like this.
Thanks,
Anne
Humble Hearts Nursery

(Oh forgot to mention, she has sent me over 26 messages and emails harassing me also, I had to complain to Etsy!!)
Watch out for these buyers:

Francis Fulgenzi
mr.freeze0510@gmail.com
Shipping address

kimberlee Baldwin-Fulgenzi
warren, MI 48088
United States

2

I just read your post on Baby Banter and I am anxiously waiting for someone to come up with an answer. I guess it is eBay that accepts pictures, etc. to resolve a dispute?

3

Pia,
I don’t know about Ebay, I don’t sell much on there. The two people I talked with at PayPal said they don’t accept pictures or email because they can be doctored. I asked how they can possibly rule in favor of the seller then. She said unless it is past 45 days, the ruling usually goes in favor of the buyer!!!
Im so disgusted that this kind of thing can happen. No protection for us sellers.
All the work that goes into our babies to be ruined my carelessness of not following instructions. Makes me so sad.
I really am fervently researching another payment method.

4

This scares me - what kind of protection do we have?

5

None!
I have been on the phone and on the PayPal community forums all morning. They all say it is a risk we sellers take. Of course they said they “rule in favor to the buyer as we need them more than they need us” direct quote.
They said if everyone closed up shops because of one bad buyer, there would be no shops. What???
They are horrible. They make so much money off of my sales with their fees. well no more. I refuse to have that worry hanging over my head with every sale.

6

Okay - so now I wonder if someone buys a product through eBay and pays with PayPal then if eBay sides with the seller and PayPal with the buyer how in the heck can a seller ever come out on top? or do they have to do the dispute through eBay first if it was an eBay purchase? I haven’t done a listing, but this sort of stuff makes me really nervous.

7

From what other sellers on PayPal forum have said, Ebay and PayPal are working hand in hand now. I don’t know how this would pan out for eBay sellers. But, if you sell directly from a website other than eBay. They say that unless the purchas is over 45 days, they rule for buyer. They say " we need buyers more than they need us" . Basically suck it up and go on. On a better note, I contacted Etsy and they have started the process of removing her due to harassing messages to me.

8

That doesn’t help much financially though!

9

No, the only hope I have is that it does not get mailed back in time(PayPal allows them ten days to provide tracking). Then if they don’t, the case closes.

12

I talked to three different people at PayPal. They Said since they already asked he to ship it back, there’s nothing they can do.
FYI, here is her info…I wouldn’t sell to her

Francis Fulgenzi
mr.freeze0510@gmail.com

kimberlee Baldwin-Fulgenzi
warren, MI 48088
United States

13

I had a woman file a claim against me a few years ago, saying that when she opened the box, the baby’s just fell off…right there in the box…she didn’t even touch it or anything.

I called and spoke to someone at PayPal, because I was just beside myself, as you can imagine. I mean, come on…every reborner knows that a baby’s head does not just “fall off” in the box.

PayPal said they would not refund her until I had the doll back in my possession, and the doll had to be received in the same condition as I sent it…well, except the head, of course.

Got the doll back, marked all over with makers, nail polish, lipstick…clearly children had been playing with it. And yes, the head was off. The hair was all matted and filthy, clothes were dirty – I took a ton of pics and called PayPal, explained the condition of the doll and was told they were looking into the matter.

The next day, they took the money out of my account and refunded her. Nice. Real nice.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the person who bought my Ladybug filed a claim stating that she did not authorize the charge to her credit card the week of Thanksgiving and wanted them to do a chargeback. I called Paypal. The guy said that if I could prove tracking and delivery they wouldn’t be able to authorize the chargeback. I provided tracking and proof of delivery thru UPS…they went ahead and approved the chargeback, so she got a free doll. However, this time, the loss was for the credit card company, not me, since I had provided tracking info, etc.

16

— Begin quote from “Karen in Florida”

I had a woman file a claim against me a few years ago, saying that when she opened the box, the baby’s just fell off…right there in the box…she didn’t even touch it or anything.

I called and spoke to someone at PayPal, because I was just beside myself, as you can imagine. I mean, come on…every reborner knows that a baby’s head does not just “fall off” in the box.

PayPal said they would not refund her until I had the doll back in my possession, and the doll had to be received in the same condition as I sent it…well, except the head, of course.

Got the doll back, marked all over with makers, nail polish, lipstick…clearly children had been playing with it. And yes, the head was off. The hair was all matted and filthy, clothes were dirty – I took a ton of pics and called PayPal, explained the condition of the doll and was told they were looking into the matter.

The next day, they took the money out of my account and refunded her. Nice. Real nice.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the person who bought my Ladybug filed a claim stating that she did not authorize the charge to her credit card the week of Thanksgiving and wanted them to do a chargeback. I called Paypal. The guy said that if I could prove tracking and delivery they wouldn’t be able to authorize the chargeback. I provided tracking and proof of delivery thru UPS…they went ahead and approved the chargeback, so she got a free doll. However, this time, the loss was for the credit card company, not me, since I had provided tracking info, etc.

— End quote

I had the same thing happen to me with a chargeback for an unauthorized charge. The buyer received the doll and left a glowing feedback on Ebay. Four months later she filed a claim for an unauthorized charge. I could not find my receipt for tracking and now I am out my doll and have to give her her money back. I am out my doll and I have to pay 300.00. I have since learned to keep all receipts and have signed confirmation of delivery.
Mary

17

— Begin quote from “Ludmila”

— Begin quote from “babymamma”

I have since learned to keep all receipts

— End quote

and have signed confirmation of delivery.
Mary

surely, you have to keep all that for tax purposes anyway?

— End quote

Yes but in the process of moving this receipt was lost. When I first started reborning I never thought about those things. I was innocent and naïve, I now have a filing system and pay attention to documentation.
Mary

18

See, this is crazy. Zero protection for seller. It’s just sad how artists can be ripped off so easily. I have now spoke with four different people at PayPal. …same results. They said it’s her word against mine, and even though I have photos and emails as proof they will not look at it because they can be Photoshoped and emails doctored.
So, they side with the buyer.
I am looking into propay, I have used them before, but they take 2-5 days for money to reach your account.
I can’t afford to make babies, and have this happen. What a black cloud hanging over your head.

19

And I was just thinking of listing some babies after giving up on selling them. Just when I think it’s safe, a new scam shows up. Makes me want to just give them away to someone I know will appreciate them instead of a stranger getting them for free.

20

Yes, it is bad out there but for all the few bad ones, there are more good. I have had so many wonderful customers who paid and were thrilled with my dolls. I guess a few bad ones every now and then are just the cost of doing business. Do everything you can to protect yourself and hope for the best,
Mary

23

I haven’t had any problems with Paypal- they always fix whatever issue I have had with wacky buyers. But I generally sell on Ebay or Etsy- not a direct Paypal exchange. I did have one girl give a doll to a child after I clearly stated not to and 6 months later she started harassing me by email- with threats saying the hair was falling out- I calmly explained that I had a disclaimer on the caresheet about children- but I can re-root the doll for a fee. She declined. She didn’t file a claim- but I would say that the transaction was so long ago, plenty of damage could happen by then. I blocked her emails. So are you still contacting paypal or is this over now?

24

As of right now, I have contacted PayPal so many times, they are opening case again. They will not accept my pictures or copy of etsy conversations as evidence though. So, we will see what happens. I told them to look and ser how much money they have made off of me for their fees this year alone, and I will be closing account if they don’t look into it further. Perhaps this is why they are looking into it, or they are just sick of me…lol.
Just a warning though, they will not look at photos or emails. This is ridiculous to me. How are we supposed to protect ourselves against bad customers???

26

Ok, just got off phone again with the department head of disputes for PayPal. He states that it stated on PayPal seller and buyer sections 11& 13, that disputes will favor the buyer. He did say that no where on site does it say they won’t accept emails or photos, even though it’s policy. He said it really is just trusting that our customers will not damage items within the 45 alotted days. So, be very careful to whom you sell to. He did say with custom babies you may have better chance of winning your case as a seller. But, the seller is still at a disadvantage of customers word against sellers.
He commended my years having a spotless seller repuratation, but again said we need buyers more than they need us.
I will be looking into a different payment agency that other artists have recommended.

27

Update on PayPal…they did refund me and the buyer the price of baby. I talked to at least seven different people and emailed at least 10 times.
Would you believe I am still getting harassing emails from this buyer…this baby was shipped well before Christmas. I am contacting etsy, PayPal an an attorney so they stop harassment!! Crazies!!! They got a full refund after damages were made to baby!!!
Also, I did find that if you sell custom order babies, the buyer protection through PayPal, does not extend as mush, so us sellers are protected a bit more.Good to know.