Stirring the pot

Baby Talk
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I just walked in the door (metaphorically) and I am already stirring the pot…

I know this has been brought up before and my intention is NOT to put down custom doll makers. I think doing customs is smart, you don’t have to invest time and money before you get a customer who is willing to put down a deposit, and you get to make a doll that your customers really want. I think it takes a certain patients, understanding, and ability to take someone else’s idea and bring it to life, I admire that.

I personally do not do this for my own reasons. I make babies that I like, it’s an organic process for me. I am a professional artists and art for me is an expression of who I am. I make reborns as a side hustle because it is very relaxing and I enjoy it. Some people like puzzles, video games, shopping…I like painting babies. The perk is it creates a little baby money so I can keep doing it. I treat it like a business because it is and I want to be sure the people who buy my babies are happy.

My issue is with the huge amount of doll makers on Etsy and Ebay that are using photos (usually prototype photos) that do not belong to them, they do not have permission to use, and that do not represent the work they actually do to market their services as a custom reborn artist. They pull people in with a low price then add on. This devalues the work everyone else is doing. I think its kinda shady honestly.

I am bringing it up here because I know there are a lot of new doll makers here who are setting up shop as well as collectors who are looking for great babies and new artists.

I went to Etsy today, I was listing a baby and I came across a great baby at a fair price, then another and another and thought “My goodness this woman does excellent work and her prices are so reasonable” Then I went to her profile and looked in depth at her work. I am pretty sure (very sure, they still had water marks from other nurseries) none of the photos are hers and are of her work and I wrote to her. There was another artists listing babies as “fake” art dolls…

I know, I know…not a smart move, not my business but I am reactionary like that.

I make art for a living, I also make these babies. I don’t think they are “fake” art. We do cheat a little because most of us don’t sculpt what we paint but I like to think of the sculpt as a blank canvas, no two are ever painted the same. This requires some skill, not everyone will be great at it and there is a learning curve, most people don’t get past the first two babies.

If you are setting up shop do not use photos that do not belong to you, those photos belong to the artists. You need to market your babies using your own images, you need to earn your own customers. You will need to find a way to invest in a dozen kits, paint them, photograph them.

If you are a collector don’t fall for this, make sure (and get in writing) that these are photos that represent that artists actual work. I can only see two scenarios…and both are that you will be cheated with a low price or a high price and most likely not the baby you were hoping for.

Ok boss-lady rant is over.

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I’ve see. Quite a few “artists” use other people’s photos. I always check their page to see true account of what their work is like, but not everyone does that. It’s unfortunate :frowning:

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I agree! I messaged Silvia one day to tell her a lady on Etsy was using had Silvia Creations photos. She said she knows. When she has time, she messages them and tells them to stop. They stop for a couple of days then they go back to posting her photos. It would be a full time job to prevent it. So, she and other prototype artists probably appreciate you standing up for them. In reality, we all should speak up when we see it. But the confrontation raises my blood pressure and puts me in a bad mood. So I ignore it and move on. :grimacing:

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It’s cheating to use another persons work to sale your own work. I understand.

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Yes, it is definitely wrong. A few years ago I had a lady steal my photos granted it wasn’t a prototype but still. I contacted her so many times. Her shop was eventually taken down. Another thing is usually they are higher in the pages of Etsy too. So they make the front page while other artists are later. It is so frustrating and wrong. Not to mention customers think they are receiving this beautiful baby and get something totally different.

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You are absolutely right. I know who you are referring to and I had to fold my fingers together and bite my tongue not to say something to her. I don’t think this is a rant it is a fact and actually to me fraudulent, that is not their work. It is like writing a check from someone elses check book. :footprints::baby:

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I think we all feel the same way about the many artists that use other people’s work to sell their (normally) lower quality dolls.
Here’s what I dont understand- For 1, how are all of these customers not requesting refunds when they receive a doll that looks nothing like the photo?
2- The artist using the prototype photos is using them because they know they are incredibly well done dolls and people will want them- do they not worry their customers will be disappointed?
3- Buyers have obviously at least googled reborn, those prototype photos are the first things to pop up… How do they not realize this when purchasing a doll? How do they not stop and go “wait… I have seen this before!”?
It just all irritates the crap out of me! Here I am, worried that my work isnt good enough, worried that one tiny speck on the paint is going to trigger a refund if I sell it, worrying that my photos wont accurately represent my doll… All of the normal things that honest artists think about when deciding to put their work out there for the world to see. I see these sellers as con artists, as well as extremely disrespectful to truthful artists. They are taking potential customers from other artists by reeling them in with false representations of their work. Plus, those customers will likely be completely untrusting if they ever decide to purchase again. They have soured the experience for those people, and have lessened the sales for artists. The market is already flooded, there are thousands of knockoffs being sold, and now people are selling using other artists photos as their own work. I can see why many artists are frustrated, and I can see why so many are deciding to leave the community all together.

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I don’t think you’re saying anything wrong at all it’s 100% true- no one should EVER be using other people’s work at all! EVER! if they do, this is wrong and deceptive!

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Gina, I am so glad that you have returned to the forums since we NEED someone who isn’t afraid to speak out for what they really think and believe!! I think most are afraid that people will think they are “jerks” if they speak up!! I agree 100% that NO ONE should use other peoples pictures. Why would you be afraid to show your own work? Afraid it might not show so well and you won’t get any sales?? Then maybe you shouldn’t be selling to start with. USE YOUR OWN PICTURES OR DON’T SELL YOUR BABIES!!! It is totally unfair to the artist who’s photos you ARE using not to mention the customer who you are selling to!! JMO

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DDDDDAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNN Gina! I love you!

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Update, the “fake art doll” lady wrote me back and explained that she uses the term because she has been reborning a long time and back when she started people called them “fake-babies” so she uses the term in case people are searching under fake babies and she said the photos she uses belongs to her. The other woman did not respond.

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I think there are shady artists but I also think that maybe there are some artists that justify using prototype photos because they see Companies using them to sell kits, not understanding that those are not photos for the public to use but photos that were earned, created, and paid for by those artists and companies. That is sorta why I posted this, for those who are setting up shop and might think this is how its done and its ok.

This is a small community, and I think we need to all be accountable to each other. It isn’t a contest or a race, sharing information, pricing fairly, treating customers well, encouraging each other and putting out good babies helps us help each other and it keeps this art elevated.

Knock offs are a drag but I believe people value something that is made by a person more than something that is made in a factory. If you really want a doll, or want one for your kid and you have a limited budget a factory baby is a way to have something that is close. (thats me trying to get right with those damn 89.00 babies).

I am going to personally call out people when I run into them. I am not going after them but when I they show up in my reality they will get a nice email reminding them that they need to respect the work of others and a flagging. Not sure how much of a difference it will make but it will make me feel better.

Gotta get back to work, thank you ladies for the support.

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If I thought I was buying one of Sylvia’s babies and received one from a beginning artist my PayPal claim would happen so fast it would make your head spin. It’s totally shady and a complete misrepresentation of what’s being sold and should be reported IMO. I consider it a scam because they can’t produce the doll they’re advertising.

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Why would anyone want to show Silvia’s work? If I recommend a kit to someone I either show them the blank kit or one I did. I don’t want them to get their expectations up expecting Silvia quality results from me. I don’t understand their mind set.

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Isn’t there something about copyright laws and such? I mean – why can they use copyrighted material as their own? JS

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As a custom artist the only time I have used a prototype artists photo is if I have never done the sculpt the customer chose. My work is represented everywhere else but if someone contacts me to make a custom doll of a sculpt I haven’t done I will put the prototype artists photo to represent the sculpt.

That said I do not use them to advertise non customs or if I have done the sculpt before I use my own photos. I also don’t offer sculpt specific listings. My listings say. "Open eyed baby with hair. You choose sculpt " and set a base price listing with my photos. Only after the customer has chosen will I use a prototype artists picture on their listing to represent. And only if I have never done the sculpt before.

Hope I’m making sense?

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They aren’t supposed to do it. Etsy will take the photos down if you report them. But Etsy can’t keep up with it either. There are too many. I wish Etsy would have a 3 strikes and you’re out rule. If your photos get reported 3 times, and are proven to be fraudulent, your IP address should be blocked. But I guess some “crafts” on Etsy are just pre-designed kits in which the results all look the same and stock photos are fine. So, it would be really hard for Etsy to keep up with it. To them, prototype photos might just be thought of as stock photos. Whatever the case, if you’re going to run a site, you need to be responsible enough to find out a way to prevent fraud. :confused:

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One of the common “artists” on Etsy who uses prototype photos, I look at often. Her reviews all sound the same. A lot are from the same people. Some are reviews for a heartbeat or some kind of add on for their kit. The majority say they haven’t received their doll yet but communication is excellent. If you scroll way to the beginning, there are reviews for 3-4 real dolls. The customers posted pictures in the review. They aren’t bad dolls. But they aren’t nearly the quality of the prototype pictures either. It looks to me like she sold a few dolls. Then she started making up reviews trying to get people to buy the ones based on the prototype photos. If anyone did fall for it, they are still waiting patiently for their custom doll to arrive. Time probably runs out on leaving a real review before they receive their actual doll, if they ever receive anything. :confused:

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Thanks for your reply to my comment. I see your point, and probably the same point as others would make. Maybe a 3 strikes, you’re out rule would be great. Even that might be cost prohibitive for Etsy to control. Oh well. As you say, we have to keep ourselves honest and then keep a lookout for these folks. I do agree that it affects the ones who sell their work. They do beautiful work, but this seems to weaken the market. Sort of like a neighborhood with a homeowner whose place looks like a pig sty. It devalues the other homes in that neighborhood. OK. I’ll get off that box. :slight_smile:

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I understand what your saying and I don’t think that’s what she’s talking about. I’ve shown people dolls on B.B. page to show them what they would look like. Not the same thing as taking that picture to advertise my work for sale.

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