Please state if it is #2 or #1 kits or parts

Myself and another gal here on BB forum have both had the same thing happen to us. For me this is the 3rd time of happening to me.
People are buying up the seconds from BB and passing them off to unsuspecting people as firsts. We have no way of knowing until we receive them and the other person has our money or our kits we traded to them. If we had wanted seconds we would of went and bought them. This is very very unfair to the person who in good trust makes a deal for firsts kits or parts and receive the cheaper seconds they can’t more than likely sell or reborn to sell farther down the line.
It is hard enough for many of us to make a profit or even sometimes to even sell a reborn now with the economy the way it is without being ripped off by a fellow reborner. Please people stop doing this! There at least should be some kind of trust between fellow reborners. If you have seconds at least give the person the chance to decide if they want to try using them or not.

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Yes, each time it was people from this forum. At least all but one was nice about making good on it where they either refunded or let you return items. As long as everything has turned out okay, I will not reveal who they are, but wanted to post this as a caution to people to either ask, or state the parts aren’t firsts if you are going to enter into a deal with someone else.I guess my best advice is to just ask before completing a deal with anyone for BB kits or parts if they are the firsts or seconds.
What I am saying though is if you know you buy seconds you need to check to make sure you are not sending these on as firsts when you make a deal with people. Many reborners do not use the seconds to sell to their customers, but do use them instead as gifts or to keep for themselves.
All this does is cause delays in getting the good kits or parts a person may be in a hurry to receive for a special order.
There actually isn’t any way to know if you have received a seconds kit or parts if you are really new to reborning other than there is something on the vinyl that don’t look right to you. It is either black dots and particles in the vinyl, or shiny flecks on something in the vinyl. Sadly if you don’t look the parts over well when receiving them from anyone, not just here you may have defective parts and not know it until it is too late to get a replacement or refund.

If I have 2nds or test products for sale here I ALWAYS state so.

However, I have bought 2nds and if I was not able to find the “defect” with them or the part had a small issue I could fix like a spot that washed off with W&N then I would reborn them and sold the baby and didn’t advertise it as being a “second”. (Sorry for the run on sentence) If the reborn had something that couldn’t be fixed then I would sell the baby as a boo boo baby or whatever.

I said all that to say this, since I have gotten seconds before that only had a dirty spot that easily came off with W&N then what if someone sold/traded seconds like that on here w/o telling you? How are you all telling that it is seconds? Or are you getting parts with noticeable defects?

Either way the right thing to do is for the seller/person trading to state that the parts are seconds but that she can’t find any visual defects and show photos then let the buyers decide if they want them. I agree it is taking advantage to get a new first quality kit for 2nds.

Yikes that is scary …it makes you afraid to buy off individuals if people aren’t being honest.

Please don’t assume any kit you buy is perfect! I have found that many kits are very defective and that many people just get the kits and put them away without inspecting the parts good. DO NOT ASSUME THEY WERE INSPECTED! Sellers of large amounts of kits do not always have the time to inspect any of their kits and wait to hear if a customer has a bad kit and they just replace what ever is bad.
Your biggest enemy is the black contams in the vinyl. They can’t be removed or covered up. All I can say is be in good light and look every part over as you unpack them.

Yes, good statement! I have really good luck now with the 1st quality kits. Only rare to find a part with something bad . Only thing I had happen lately was some limbs that were extremely shiny. Too shiny to sand or paint, but they righted it right away for me.

Most of the time all the seconds are is a cosmetic issue not a quality issue. But if my customer is paying several hundred dollars of their hard earned money, then they deserve only the best of parts too. If they want a cheaper reborn and don’t have a lot of money it would be an option that could be offered. But at least they would have the option of saying yes or no.

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In defense of 2nds parts, IMO they do not hurt the quality of the reborn.

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I agree.

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If I were to make a custom for someone, I would not use 2nds parts without telling my customer. If they were on a tight budget or doing a reborn for a child or nursing home, I would give them the option of my getting a seconds kit-- but would not charge them the price for a first quality kit. That’s just not right.

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Same here. My customs are always made from first quality kits. Babies I made using 2nds were either sold cheaper than a first quality kit baby or given as gifts. I have never made a baby using test parts. Honestly though, with BB having so many great sales it has been a REALLY long time since I bought any 2nds and used them.

Firstly I have been reborning for over 6 years, so as you say, I well know when I have a bad part and am not just “FLIPPING” out. I resent that very much! Have you seen any names posted here? I have had pressure put on me to post names and have not done it because if a person makes the deal right then I would not do that to them. I only posted this because there is many newbies that don’t know enough to check their parts and kits over when they receive them. I am not a novice!!! I am talking air bubbles in the fingers and black chunks embedded in the vinyl. You can not just wash that away, nor can you paint over it, or pass something like that onto your customers. Why should I trade a first grade parts kit to someone that knowingly sends me seconds? How many on here don’t know it has been done to them? When you see where the other person actually tried to scratch out the black contam with their finger nail (left very noticeable scratch marks all around the spot) you know they absolutely knew what they were doing. Wrong…wrong…wrong… I have never seen a forum like this one. If you post something to try to help others then they all go after you like a bunch of snarling cats. Read the posts before you jump down a person’s throat!

No I am not over the top. I keep being misquoted and told I don’t know a good part from a bad pretty much, etc. I posted this topic because it seems to be a very real issue here. Then I get jumped on accusing me of naming names, not knowing if I have a good part or not and whatever. If everyone would of read all my postings all I was saying is there is people that are sending out kits and parts that are not first quality on this group and they must be hoping that people are new to reborning and will not know any better. It would be different if they didn’t know it was a second, but when you actually scrape the defect with your fingernail and know it is unfixable and then still pass it off not saying a word… I now have lost over $15.00 in shipping costs and so did the other gal because of someone doing this to an unknowing new to reborning person. So right now this has effected three of us paying out money in worthless shipping and the other two also in kit costs and all for nothing because the parts are bad enough to not use in a doll you would be selling. As you can see it really in the end can effect several people. I posted this article in the hopes that ones doing this would think how it can effect more than just the one person.

I do want to clarify that I was not questioning whether or not Lara had received any dishonest trading/sales. I was asking how she (or whomever) knew that the parts were 2nds. This statement answers my question:

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I am talking air bubbles in the fingers and black chunks embedded in the vinyl. You can not just wash that away, nor can you paint over it, or pass something like that onto your customers. Why should I trade a first grade parts kit to someone that knowingly sends me seconds? How many on here don’t know it has been done to them? When you see where the other person actually tried to scratch out the black contam with their finger nail (left very noticeable scratch marks all around the spot) you know they absolutely knew what they were doing.

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I was also trying to point out that even to many of us long time reborners it might be easy to pull the wool over our eyes on parts being 2nds since sometimes all that is wrong with the 2nds is a dirty spot that can be washed off. Especially since I too have bought first quality kits from companies that were not nearly as nice as some of the 2nds I had gotten here. For that reason, I was agreeing that everyone should post 1st quality, 2nds or test parts when selling or trading kits/parts.

I am sorry this has happened to you Lara. It is very unfair and underhanded for someone to do this to you and others on this board. Like you said, you are out shipping fees and such that may not can be recovered not to mention that someone got money or a good first quality kit for something that was not first quality. If it was an honest mistake or oversight on the part of the seller they would be more than willing to make it right. If someone is unwilling to make something like that right it tells me something is amiss with them.

I would urge you and whomever else this has happened to that you leave the appropriate feedback in the feedback section. EVEN if the person makes it right I would like to see a statement that says
X person sold me a defective kit but was very apologetic and corrected the problem. That shows the person has integrity. If they didn’t make it right then leave the appropriate neg. feedback instead.

The seconds I was talking about is actual pieces of black contam, probably burned vinyl or just about anything in the area that gets embedded in the vinyl. It can not be washed out or removed without showing up even after reborning the parts. Anything black or dark on or in the vinyl just seems to really show up after you have painted the parts. Being these are actual hard pieces of contam, they can’t be removed with the acne cream or any other methods other than actually trying to literally take a pin and dig the contam out of the vinyl. The part is still ruined then because you are left with the damage of the empty hole plus scratches from digging it out. But are okay to reborn for your self or someone that isn’t concerned with it.
Also on the kit I had here, on the middle finger was an air bubble just under the surface of the vinyl. These also show through even after you have painted the area unless possibly you put a heavier paint layer on. Don’t know about that. I have been told that the air bubble can pop when being baked or heated at any given time because there is only a very light layer of vinyl covering them. It would leave an empty hole that would be very noticeable.

You will find that the insides aren’t always the prettiest in some of the kits, but it in no way effects the outside unless it would be some type of ink or something in that line that somehow got in there. Most kits have extra vinyl that has run down when they poured the hot vinyl in. Those are just a pain if it runs where you have to root and the vinyl is thicker because of it. You will also probably see big air bubbles from the insides. Don’t worry about those because if they don’t show they are right next to the surface they will not break through. It is extremely hard to pour either hot vinyl, or even porcelain with out getting some air bubbles.

The Lucas are some of the worse for air bubbles and lumps on the insides of them for some reason. But yes, they are first quality and will be fine to use. I think everyone I have ever had of those are like that.
 Hope this helps you out some.

Gosh Gina, I would be too. I know a lot of places won’t accept returns on a kit once it has been reborn. It really saddens me to know that there are people here who would be so underhanded.