That’s great!
I wasn’t sure about using the Flow Medium as a primer but now we know it works better when mixed with the paints. Let the paints cure for 48-72 hours before varnishing. If I have applied a lot of paint layers I will even wait a week.
Remember, full cure time is 2-4 weeks from the application of last varnish layer before the paints are cured enough that they should not scrape off with force. I
Thank you for all the advice you’ve given Anjsmiles . I have now varnished that patch I’ve done as a test. I tried two methods, one applying only varnish and one applying sealer then varnish. It’s now dry (touch dry at least) and the patch with both sealer and varnish has fared best. It really won’t come off without a serious effort.
I have also come to the decision that most things need a bit of reworking now and then therefore If I have to do the odd touch- job so be it, as long as I know I can I’m fine with that. Hey, if silicone babies costing thousands need careful maintenance and the occasional surgery, I can’t complain if my totally novice little effort does now can I
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I am going to get some of those JoSonja’s paints though when I’m earning again as I’ve realised I’d like to attempt a baby next! so if it does rub off I’ll replace it with those. For the moment though I think I’m finally ready to attempt painting the parts of this vinyl for real .
Great learning experience for you and bravo for not giving up! You did well!
Finally got the chance to paint yesterday! It’s going well so far and I’m happy with how it’s looking, however I ran out of time to paint all the pieces. I’ve just done a little now but I’m not going to get a chance until tomorrow afternoon to finish the rest. Is it ok to leave it a day or so then start adding more paint or will it affect the finish/stop curing properly if all the paint isn’t applied the same time?
I use air dry paints. My painting very often goes for long spells without me being able to continue painting it. I would think GHSP would be even more forgiving in that way. I don’t know which you use. That is one of the beauties of this hobby for me. I am not locked into sitting for a long time painting, nor even painting every day if I am not up to it. All the delays are cause by my health problems. Hopefully, you will get more comments from others.
Thank you, that’s good to know as I still haven’t finished! It’s taken me longer than I thought to get the look I’m after but each layer is building up nicely. I spent a half hour this afternoon mixing a colour that just wouldn’t come right until I gave it up in frustration. Tried to quickly experiment with the paint while I had a few minutes spare this evening and got it perfect straight away .
Out of interest, what would happen if you only mix the paint and medium together without the water? Would it not work as well or not at all?
I’ve finally finished the painting! It’s taken a while for me to get it t o a point of being completely happy and satisfied with it and now I’m nervous about sealing and varnishing it. I know I need to wait 72 hours but is there any way of making certain the brush strokes and colors don’t just merge into a big blurry mess and I lose all the layers I’ve built up? I’ve gotten this fear that I’ll paint the sealer on and it’ll smudge the paint or even take it off. Can this really happen or am I being silly and worrying for nothing?
@anjsmiles could tell you this much better than I, but water is used to dilute the paint. I think it depends on which kind of acrylic you are using. If you put in too large a percentage of water, it causes the pigment (I believe) to spread out and it will not cover well on the doll. So, I have been told, to use a small amount of water, and add medium to help it stick. I think the medium puts back in some of the properties the paint loses with water. I know there have been formulas (loosely spoken as nothing in this art form, as far as I can tell, is an exact science.) here on this forum, but I think @anjsmiles, or maybe some of the more long term air dry users on this forum will be able to explain it much better than I am doing. Hope this makes sense!’’
ETA: Up above in this thread, @anjsmiles explains some of this and she is much, much better than I at telling you. I think I would reread it and see if that helps you.
You did good in telling her!
Basically, if you over saturate the paint with water it will break down the pigments and emulsion binders in the paint causing the paints to not adhere well and also to fade with time.
I found this person’s description on the internet that I think is a very good summation explaining thinning of acrylic paints.
"Paint consists of two components: Pigment and binder. “Medium” and “binder” are the same thing. Pigment is the colour in a paint.
Thinning means you are spreading out the pigment. If you do that by adding more binder then you can spread it out a lot -thin- it a lot. If you use water to thin you’ll quickly break the pigment from the binder and create paint soup."
I really like that explanation. Very easy for even my mind to understand. So, if I use a liquid medium of some sort, I can’t use too much? I can use it until it makes the paint as thin as I need, say in a wash?
The more medium you add to your paints the thinner the color will get but the stickier the paints will be as well as the higher the sheen. So you want to balance things. The best medium for thinning paints way down is a flow medium. My 2 go to brands are Golden High Flow Medium and Jo Sonjas Flow Medium. The Jo Sonjas is cheaper and works very well to get that very fluid thinned result you want. The Golden will do it also but seems to hold lines a little better for hair painting but may just be my imagination. Liquitex makes one as well but I have not tried it.
You can also add a Matte Medium into your paint and Flow Medium to matte the Flow Medium down some as well as further reduce the pigment intensity of the paint. Golden Fluid Matte Medium will work for this but it is not going to be the most matte medium. (My experience has been that people report having tacky feeling with the Liquitex fluid matte medium so I do not recommend that.) I DO like the Liquitex ULTRA matte medium. It is a very thick gel that is super matte. Golden has a Super Matte Medium as well but it is not as thick or quite as matte as the Liquitex ULTRA Matte Medium IMO.
I hope I am not confusing you too much. Ultimately, you have to play around with your mediums until you find the ones or combination of ones you like. You can also add a little retarder to your mixes to increase drying time but keep in mind it like water will reduce your paint adhesion and it also lengthens your cure time.
It is recommended not to add more than 30% distilled water to paints but I have found if I have put a lot of mediums into my paint I can push that ratio up a little towards 50% as long as it is just for one layer followed by the next layer having little to no water in it. In this way you are sandwiching your over thinned layers between binder rich layers.
The reason acrylic paint can be thinned down to water color with water on paper is that paper absorbs the paint pigments and locks them in. Canvas, vinyl etc. does not therefore they have to be locked in with mediums. So if you keep that in mind it helps you to understand why you cannot over use water on vinyl dolls. Also, priming your dolls give the pieces a layer for the paints to better bond to and that helps the overall adhesion picture as well.
Learning all this takes time but once you get the hang of it you will love your air dry paints. Many give up and do not pursue the process long enough and that is why they do not like air dry paints. Or they just want to quick thin with water and then complain later that air dry paints are not permanent. This is one reason why the Ultimate Fusion fans love those paints so much is they were sold as a water mix in paint. I think over time many have found even those paints have issues with too much water and they have since added more mediums to their line. When I use those paints I prefer to add Flow Medium to them and a little water and then I get good results with them.
Thanks Angie. When I started this 2 years ago, I knew nothing about paint or mediums. I have a daughter who has always been into art. She will soon be 41. As I have said many times on this forum, I was following a lady on YouTube at the time (lost track of her now) who said that she used the craft paints, and that were fine to use. So, I did. I spent a smallish fortune on them trying to get my baby painted. After that experience, I did research. I settled on WaterBorne paints. Hubby purchased the set for me. I love them. I don’t know much about paints, but I like them and I love that Stephanie is so willing to help.
OK. that rabbit hole got too deep.
I saw the Liquitex mediums at Michaels and asked my daughter what they were for and how did one use them. She was no help. I think because she had never painted vinyl before and she probably knew that she did not know. The thick Liquitex is what I have used most. I have flow medium now, and I think it is Liquitex. I have only used it once or twice, I think. I have other things, and paints as well. I am more of a collector, I think, than a painter.
My health hinders me being able to paint a lot. But through this forum and yours and Stephanie’s, I have learned A LOT! I feel much more knowledgeable when I shop for these things these days. Thanks for this added info. It would have been Greek to me 2 years ago, but now I can follow somewhat.
WOW Anjsmiles thank you for such a thoroughly detailed yet easy to follow explanation . That has helped me understand much better about how the paint works.
I followed your advice to a tee, made sure not to put a lot of water in the mix and tried to remember precisely how many drops of paint I put it so as to add exactly the same amount of flow medium, mixing it really thoroughly. Presumably I got something right as the vinyl pieces are not tacky or shiny at all in any way. In fact they painted quite easily, thin enough to build layers of color but not so thin the paint ran or dripped.
I sure hope they won’t fade! I’m so super happy with it and praying it won’t smudge or something when I seal and varnish it . When you seal a baby do you apply it on a tiny unnoticeable area first to make sure it’s not going to ruin your paint finish? Then keep going if that bit seems ok? Or wait to see how it dries first?
I’m not Angie, obviously, but what kind of paint are you using? I am sure you have said, but I have forgotten.
ETA: I think you are using the craft paints. I have seen people post many times that they will not hold up long term. I did my first one with those because another reborn person told me they were good to use. As much time and money that went into that doll, I think she may have faded, not even being outside much at all.
There are a lot of air dry paints out there. A good air dry made for reborns would be perfect. I use WaterBorne, but I know there are a good many others.
I wait 24 hours and then apply RebornFX Sealer, which is an isolation coat. Then I wait 72 hours to 1 week depending on how much paint, mediums and layers I have put on the vinyl. Then I varnish and I just pounce the varnish on with a wedge all over and never have had any issues with the paint moving at that point.
I had to check my supplies, but I do have another medium, and I think it is probably the one you are talking about in this sentence? It is Liquitex Professional Flow-Aid. It is diluted 1 drop to 20 drops water. I did use it once or twice. The first time I used it, I had not seen the small print on the back (I need my ophthalmologist to listen when I tell him I do not see well.) Anyway, the first time I had WAAAAYYY too much in the paint. The second time I didn’t. I didn’t like the first time, but I don’t remember why. LOL Need to take notes. Anyway, I don’t remember the doll being tacky. I have been thinking I will make up a little of it, with the proper amount of water, to see how that goes. I guess I really do experiment – but not much. I also have the other two by liquitex. The matte fluid medium and the ultra gel medium, which I use pretty much all the time.
No that is a differnet product. You only use a drop of it in your distilled water because it reduces the surface tension of the water.
Read this it explains it all: Flow Aid Additive | Liquitex
Thanks!
Americana acrylic , art grade one as I was told not to use the cheap craft paint. Presumably if I painted a whole baby with them they might start rubbing off or fading from being held and dressed but small areas should be ok?