http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-SILICONE-b … 2ec131f2d3
This is either an illegal silicone copy of a BB doll or a BB doll being sold falsely as silicone. Looks like the vinyl version to me…
Wow, sure looks like Nod to me no matter what it’s made of!
I’m sure it’s just a language mix up. Ask me how to say vinyl in Chinese. I’m sure I would get it wrong too.
— Begin quote from “Iansmommie”
I’m sure it’s just a language mix up. Ask me how to say vinyl in Chinese. I’m sure I would get it wrong too.
— End quote
No this is no mix up I can assure you. This is purposeful. There are some sellers from China on Ebay who are making illegal copies of discontinued kits in vinyl and selling them really cheap. They do not have the artist’s permission to do this but are saying that since they have the original molds left over from when the artist paid them to make the sculpts that it is their right to do so, which it is not. Then there are others claiming that they bought the copied kits from an US dealer in China. I know because I have conversed with one who says this and recognized holes in his story.
Then there is also a places that is offering reborn dolls for sale using photos of other artists and dolls that are discontinued ltd. ed. kits. It is not clear from the add if they are selling a finished doll or a copied kit but it appears to be a finished doll. Of course, the whole thing could be a scam and the buyer gets nothing or maybe just a copied kit…
Here is the link:
Alibaba Manufacturer Directory - Suppliers, Manufacturers, Exporters & Importers … erproduct1
Bottom line, there is some underhanded stuff coming out of China and they are not ignorant to the language or confused. They are scamming people.
Here is more info on copied kits being sold:
I looked up Lewis and here he is. He was a factory doll produced in 2008.
http://www.rebornshop.co.uk/lewis-factory-doll-by-discover-dolls-454-p.asp
Here is Charlotte
http://www.freewebs.com/daisylanebabies/apps/photos/photo?photoid=1418238
So I sent this message to the Ebay seller:
— Begin quote from ____
I have a question. Someone just informed me that your kits are made from discontinued sculpts that have been copied from other artists. I was given info in particular that DK-18 is a copy of a Lewis doll sculpted by Janet Paulger. Here is the link to the original doll:
http://www.rebornshop.co.uk/lewis-factory-doll-by-discover-dolls-454-p.asp
I also was told DK-19 is a copy of Charlotte by Simon Laurens who can be seen at this link:
http://www.freewebs.com/daisylanebabies/apps/photos/photo?photoid=1418238
So if you are illegally copying the kits from others I am concerned about purchasing the kits I chose as well and whether or not you are being honest about them being Pthalate free.
How is it that you are able to produce these kits?
— End quote
And he responded:
— Begin quote from ____
Dear lildumplinsnursery,
Hello, we are not able to make kits, these kits were from a agent of USA in china. I bought kits from him. He told me that these kits were from original factory.He told me it is legal, it is not copy,because factory have the right of original mould, as you know ,mould fee is very expensive. I can’t copy the same with before.
kind regards
Andy
- 2011-babydoll
— End quote
I asked him also
— Begin quote from ____
So where were these kits made? China or USA? Who made the vinyl?
- lildumplinsnursery
— End quote
and he said
— Begin quote from ____
Dear lildumplinsnursery,
I think it is from China. But i don’t know detail factory information, because i bought kits from trade company of USA.
- 2011-babydoll
— End quote
At this point I was thinking if he knows so little about it then how does he know it is Pthalates free? That is if his story is even true…
I found all this out after I had bid on one of his kits. Someone alerted me to the fact what he is doing is not legal and so I started asking these questions of him. After I got these nebulous answers, I told him I wanted to cancel my transaction because I did not trust the vinyl to be safe and I did not want to have to take the whole thing up with Ebay. Once I mentioned going through Ebay he immediately canceled the transaction.
No he could be telling the truth and he could have bought the kits from another dealer. However, we have no way of knowing that the other dealer wasn’t scamming him if that is the truth because ultimately these ARE illegal copies of previously produced kits and dolls. There is definitely a bohemian in the wood pile here and I learned a long time ago to trust my instincts on things like this.
I am not disparaging kits made in China vinyl. I love China vinyl kits as long as they come from a reputable company like BB that I can trust to have made sure they are safe vinyl. However, when you see something going on like this that has dishonesty at its foundation, you can’t rely on the rest of the story to be true. Therefore, back to the NOD on Ebay now. It has dishonesty written all over it. That IS NOT a silicone baby and I don’t for one minute believe that the person who has it for sale thinks that it is or has made some kind of mistake due to language barrier. If they are smart enough to get it up on auction and use catch words like that they are smart enough to know what they are doing.
— Begin quote from “anjsmiles”
That IS NOT a silicone baby and I don’t for one minute believe that the person who has it for sale thinks that it is or has made some kind of mistake due to language barrier. If they are smart enough to get it up on auction and use catch words like that they are smart enough to know what they are doing.
— End quote
It could be a poorly done silicone, I’ve seen Berenguer dolls (illegaly) produced in silicone and even in porcelaine. So it can be done, only not quite good since there are “gaps” between head, limbs and torso.
— Begin quote from “anjsmiles”
— Begin quote from “Iansmommie”
I’m sure it’s just a language mix up. Ask me how to say vinyl in Chinese. I’m sure I would get it wrong too.
— End quote
No this is no mix up I can assure you. This is purposeful. There are some sellers from China on Ebay who are making illegal copies of discontinued kits in vinyl and selling them really cheap. They do not have the artist’s permission to do this but are saying that since they have the original molds left over from when the artist paid them to make the sculpts that it is their right to do so, which it is not. Then there are others claiming that they bought the copied kits from an US dealer in China. I know because I have conversed with one who says this and recognized holes in his story.
Then there is also a places that is offering reborn dolls for sale using photos of other artists and dolls that are discontinued ltd. ed. kits. It is not clear from the add if they are selling a finished doll or a copied kit but it appears to be a finished doll. Of course, the whole thing could be a scam and the buyer gets nothing or maybe just a copied kit…
Here is the link:
Alibaba Manufacturer Directory - Suppliers, Manufacturers, Exporters & Importers … erproduct1
Bottom line, there is some underhanded stuff coming out of China and they are not ignorant to the language or confused. They are scamming people.
— End quote
Unfortunately, counterfeiting has been around for a long time. Unfortunately, no one can stop it. Lucily you were smart enough not to purchase it. Just report the item to ebay and they will take it down.
— Begin quote from “Friki”
— Begin quote from “anjsmiles”
That IS NOT a silicone baby and I don’t for one minute believe that the person who has it for sale thinks that it is or has made some kind of mistake due to language barrier. If they are smart enough to get it up on auction and use catch words like that they are smart enough to know what they are doing.
— End quote
It could be a poorly done silicone, I’ve seen Berenguer dolls (illegaly) produced in silicone and even in porcelaine. So it can be done, only not quite good since there are “gaps” between head, limbs and torso.
— End quote
I have seen that Berenguer on Ebay done in silicone too but I didn’t remember seeing the cracks at the arm/leg joints. Also, it had a different look to it that looked like silicone. The other reason I think this is a vinyl doll is the legs are in different positions/poses. See in the photo below they are rotated up and on the other photos they are not. On the full silicone babies they use silicone to “glue” the legs and arms to the torsos and they are not jointed like vinyl dolls and don’t rotate.
http://img04.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i4/140771697/T2kxxcXc8NXXXXXXXX_!!140771697.jpg
— Begin quote from “Iansmommie”
/Reborn_Baby_Girl_Doll_Poppy_by_Romie_Strydom.html?tracelog=fmotherproduct1
Unfortunately, counterfeiting has been around for a long time. Unfortunately, no one can stop it. Lucily you were smart enough not to purchase it. Just report the item to ebay and they will take it down.
— End quote
This one has already been reported by several others and for some reason not taken down. I have been told the copy cat kits have been reported as well.
Windy I hope you don’t mean that towards me…
Everyone has different opinions and I respect that.
I think that if ebay is going to drive us crazy, then we should drive them crazy since we are buyers too! And no Nod doll that is only vinyl should be selling for that price unless Michaelangelo has come back to life and painted it! Makes you wonder about the intelligence of the buyer! I know nothing about silicone dolls and what they look like so can’t comment on that.
Thank you for explaining and providing that information. I truly respect what you are saying and why you feel the way you do.
I think a lot of sculptors are of the impression that copyright laws protect their rights to their work, at least here in the US. I have heard it said that in China they say if they “own” the original mold (being that they have it in hand) it is theirs to do with as they please. Probably true according to their law. I like many others “thought” that in the US you could not do that but maybe you can…I am not sure.
I do know that if you put a photo up on the internet it becomes public property. So the complaints you often hear about people “stealing my photos” when they put a baby up for resale using the original auction’s photos is really in vain. Once you put that photo out there it is no longer just yours.
I have good friends who sculpt OOAK babies and have had them made into kits. As a matter of principal for me, I personally decided not to buy a copy cat kit because I feel like to do so is taking money out the hands of people I care about who have their own kids to feed. To say the people who are making them are just trying to feed their kids is maybe a little understandable to me but I don’t feel that justifies it. They are still looking to profit off of someone else’s hard work regardless of why. While it is true the original artists will ultimately have to get over it, everyone likes to be validated and supported especially when they have been wronged.
I do know people who have bought these copy cat China kits because they are on a tight budget and they too are just looking for a cheaper way to make money to feed their kids. I don’t think anyone who buys or bought one is purposely trying to hurt an artist. Believe me, I had to think long and hard about passing up the 2 kits I had bid on that I really liked and was going to get for only $14.99 each. Like I said, I am very cautious about toxins and so not knowing the company who made these kits to be reputable made me paranoid about believing their reassurances that their product is “safe”. It might really be but I just wasn’t willing to take that chance.
In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves what each of us finds acceptable to our own consciences. I just wanted to put the information out there so that people are informed. I hold no ill will towards anyone who disagrees with my views about it and I hope no one holds any ill will towards me for expressing them.
She should NOT be selling it as silicone, because well, someone will think they are buying a silicone doll! Thats not very nice. i know how p*ssed i would feel if i purchased it for 800 thinking it was a silicone baby… sigh.
I also would be livid if I bought it thinking it was silicone. Doesn’t look like it got any bids. I think most people know realized it was a vinyl doll.
— Begin quote from ____
Be glad your alive to witness these inventions, because one day you will be telling your grand children about the old school reborn babies while she’s holding a talking, laughing interactive, 100% real looking robot baby.
It’s just a few years away.
— End quote
I will probably want one when they come out too!
— Begin quote from “Windyday2”
Man, when I worked in Asia, I saw my handmade stunning pieces of art stolen then taken to China, resin casted and sold for pennies on the dollar.
But do you think I would complain about it? Nope.
Only made me design better, faster and push me to the my limits.
— End quote
Good for you that you were unshaken over it but that is just you. You come across as a very matter of fact person so maybe it is easier for you to get over things like this. Everyone has different ways of responding to things and no one is to say another person’s frustration is not valid to them. I would be livid and I can understand why a lot of artists are livid right now and I don’t fault them one bit for being so. Just because things do happen doesn’t make it okay nor does it mean that someone is wrong for being upset about it. I would never disparage another person for being upset over something like this.