— Begin quote from “CKN”
maybe if you ask for honest critiques be pm’d to you people might be more likley to give an honest opinion. There has been problems with people leaving honest critiques and then getting slammed for being mean or whatever. I would try that that and see if it helps. I would be more likely to respond honestly.
— End quote
That is a good idea I will try that next time!
— Begin quote from “CindyM”
Becky, I didn’t mean to PM someone for help…in your request for critique mention that you are open to help or critique via a private message. Then those of us who think you may need help will feel encouraged to give that help and guidance.
As mentioned before when help and comments were offered on the forum we were told 1001 excuses why it was done the way it was and nothing changed because they knew better and LOVED what they were doing. fine…don’t ask for our opinion then. When you are shut down in a public way you really just quit trying to help. But that being said there are a number of us who would love to privately give honest opinions and help…but we need permission first. Yes Rhonda you are right…
Windyday2 is correct…we should be doing this because we love it…but we also need to continue to be forward thinking and protective of the babies that are offered for sale in the craft. Many on ebay should have never been photographed and offered for sale. That’s not being mean it’s being honest…and maybe that person LOVES what they are doing but they are not an artist by any stretch of the imagination. They can make babies as long as they have funding…that’s their choice but if they only way they can continue to make reborns is to sell reborns they need to improve!
As responsible artists we want everyone to improve to support their habit and continue to grow this art form. New techniques are continuing to sweep this craft because of encouragement, collaboration, and sharing.
I hope I didn’t offend anyone but when the opportunity and correct thread topic comes up and it a hot button topic for me I get a bit carried away.
— End quote
No offense taken here!!! I would just like that ANYONE is welcome to PM with suggestions at ANY TIME!! I am grateful for any critiques i can get. Afterall, i think my babies rock… but i am the mamma!! LOL! I know that others may see things i don’t so that is helpful info for me!!
I know what you mean about making a suggestion and getting the “excuses” as to why it is the way it is and how they aren’t going to change it. It annoys me too. I know i have gotten comments that say “it needs more blushing” and i would respond " I know that, i haven’t gotten that far yet". But i did clearly state in my very first comment that i KNEW there was not enough blushing because i hadn’t done that step yet. So sometimes that annoys me because it seems as if the person never really read my post. Know what i mean?
posting in forums can be tricky and i have seen so many blow ups it is kinda crazy. Things are easily misinterpreted when you just read text. I think people are quick to defend their babies, which is understandable, but then they shouldn’t have asked for opinions. Anyway, several people have pm’d me offering help and many others in this topic as well. So thank you everyone!! I really appreciate the honesty!
I’m a member of a church forum (worldwide) where people have gotten offended by what someone said or someone has intentionally insulted someone to the point the forum almost got closed down by the person who funds it. And it has almost 20,000 members. But there should be a way to get honest opinions of your work. And I know that photographing doesn’t show some of the details sometimes. Maybe the person asking for opinions can state how much they can take:
Level 1 - Please be gentle, I’m frustrated enough when I look at it but gentle hints to point me in the right direction
Level 2 - Ok, I know there are problems and I don’t know how to fix them so tell me but don’t slam me for not being perfect
Level 3 - I can take whatever you dish out and I want to know the whole truth so I can improve. Don’t hold back!
Level 4 - I am PERFECT and nothing you say can change that! So drool, everyone, drool because your babies will never look so good!
I’m getting to Level 5 which is if I have to strip this kit one more time, I will purposefully melt it in the oven even if I do use air dry paint! Cause I’m sick of your little wrinkles, baby, and you better straighten up and look pretty or else!
I myself have no problem giving you critiques by a private pm just not going to do it openly for all the world to see in case someone else does not agree I won’t have to worry about starting world war III.
But if you ask for it by a pm I would be willing to do that for you.
A couple things—first, I am always willing to help out anyone any time. It has been my experience on another forum that a thread of Brutal Critique received the same sweet responses. Some suggestions for those wanting a critique: ask while in progress. It is easier to make changes. Show several clear and close photos. I find it hard to critique a tiny image. For every “critique”, offer a real compliment on something. Make sure you offer ways to improve, not just the critique.
What often happens to me is I get tired by the time I get to that thread. Guess I should start there, then go to the other topics. I would rather be able to help others first, then go and chit-chat.
DJ you are hysterical…
I posted Taite today and put HAVE A LOOK on his topic.
I’m just showing him off, he’s finished, and I am very happy with him just the way he is. BUT if I had wanted critique I could have but PLEASE CRITIQUE in the heading.
I agree with Kim. We must say positive things along with the helpful suggestions even if critique is asked for. It really helps to move forward if you know you are doing some things right.
If you want critique also say whether you want it on the forum or privately. Dianna is right. Sometimes other people take offense more than the artist and it makes the forum a bit uncomfortable and I’m just not ready for that WWlll
I also have found that by helping each other publicly on the forum we all get better. It’s the way we share our techniques and learn from each other. It just depends on your comfort level…
I once posted my honest opinion on the topic that didn’t ask for opinions. I admit, it was intactical of me to say what I said, but the doll had 80 views and not a single comment. I was accused of being mean, even a troll. I felt terrible because I know I could have shared my opinion in a gentler way, and was instantly sorry for what I’ve said. From then on, I try not to post anything that can be considered offensive.
However, I don’t think anyone can move forward only with constant praising. When I first started photographing, I was getting positive feedback for every lousy photo I’ve posted. It took me a whole year to figure out that my photos suck, and I need to learn a lot to be a good photographer. Dishonest comments made a lot of damage to my work, and one honest critique helped me learn to see my own mistakes.
So, what I actually want to say is - don’t be oversensitive if someone takes its time to comment on your work, suggests something, even if it sometimes sounds a little harsh. We can all do better.
Also, I think it’s better to publicly share your opinion. That way, everyone can learn and better themselves.
— Begin quote from “Friki”
I once posted my honest opinion on the topic that didn’t ask for opinions. I admit, it was intactical of me to say what I said, but the doll had 80 views and not a single comment. I was accused of being mean, even a troll. I felt terrible because I know I could have shared my opinion in a gentler way, and was instantly sorry for what I’ve said. From then on, I try not to post anything that can be considered offensive.
However, I don’t think anyone can move forward only with constant praising. When I first started photographing, I was getting positive feedback for every lousy photo I’ve posted. It took me a whole year to figure out that my photos suck, and I need to learn a lot to be a good photographer. Dishonest comments made a lot of damage to my work, and one honest critique helped me learn to see my own mistakes.
So, what I actually want to say is - don’t be oversensitive if someone takes its time to comment on your work, suggests something, even if it sometimes sounds a little harsh. We can all do better.
Also, I think it’s better to publicly share your opinion. That way, everyone can learn and better themselves.
— End quote
i agree and sorry you had that experience. I did read that thread… oh boy…
— Begin quote from “sarahelizabethii”
IMO, you don’t need to be a pro to offer a valid opinion on someone’s baby – just like you don’t need to be a chef to know if something tastes good. The majority of people who buy reborns aren’t reborn artists, either, but they know the difference between a baby they like well enough to bid on, and a baby that makes them think, thanks anyway.
Everyone’s honest opinion is valuable. Disingenuous praise is not.
If you want to encourage newbies, I think it’s best to give one small, specific, genuine compliment – such as You did a great job on the nail beds.
Generic feedback about how adorable the baby is doesn’t help people improve their skills. When I get nothing but a string of nonspecific oh-how-cute responses, it doesn’t reinforce my confidence – it makes me wonder what people aren’t telling me.
— End quote
Amen… You can look on eBay and see baby’s that are started at $.99 that don’t even get an opening bid and I do think that there are folks on this forum that will comment on that baby with “oh how cute” “what a good job”, etc…
Can we have a critique thread posted here that we can add or does B.B. have to do it? I am all for this. I ladies i WOULD want your honest opion no matter how harsh. How else am i going to improve. And if critique is given to someone and they don’t take it then they shoul’nt post.
BB has to do that. Nevin usually checks posts and will perhaps have a suggestion. I personally think it may “open a can of worms”.
Perhaps the topic title should include “Don’t shoot the messenger”? LOL.
Oh, guess i had a bad idea. But go to R.E.A.L and you can see the good and bad about having a critique thread . Guess this is a no win topic.
— Begin quote from “sarahelizabethii”
I’ll be surprised if it gets ugly. I used to post my finished reborns in a critique board on another forum that is openly described as being for “brutal and honest” critiques and the replies are 90% how cute/adorable/precious. I’ve pretty much given up on it and just post my finished photos in the showcase area – the feedback’s been more or less the same no matter what.
And that’s the heart of the problem, IMO. The real issue here is not the handful of artists who truly can’t handle getting critical feedback – it’s the people who are afraid of giving it for fear of appearing mean. “Critical” has gotten to be an ugly word, but it doesn’t have to be. You CAN be critical without being mean. You don’t have to say a baby is ugly, or that you don’t like it. For example you can say, The intensity of the shading in his creases doesn’t appeal to me. That way you’re not passing judgement, but the artist will understand that intensely shaded creases are a turn-off for some buyers.
— End quote
I agree! And in my Ziggy pictue i know her eyebrows are too dark and the blue eyes dont look good with her hair color. I can change her eyes to brown ( which i plan on doing ) but i do not know how to fix the eyebrows sine i applied matte varnish on them, without them.
— Begin quote from “sarahelizabethii”
— Begin quote from “pia”
I personally think it may “open a can of worms”.
— End quote
I’ll be surprised if it gets ugly. I used to post my finished reborns in a critique board on another forum that is openly described as being for “brutal and honest” critiques and the replies are 90% how cute/adorable/precious. I’ve pretty much given up on it and just post my finished photos in the showcase area – the feedback’s been more or less the same no matter what.
— Begin quote from “pia”
Perhaps the topic title should include “Don’t shoot the messenger”? LOL.
— End quote
And that’s the heart of the problem, IMO. The real issue here is not the handful of artists who truly can’t handle getting critical feedback – it’s the people who are afraid of giving it for fear of appearing mean. “Critical” has gotten to be an ugly word, but it doesn’t have to be. You CAN be critical without being mean. You don’t have to say a baby is ugly, or that you don’t like it. For example you can say, The intensity of the shading in his creases doesn’t appeal to me. That way you’re not passing judgement, but the artist will understand that intensely shaded creases are a turn-off for some buyers.
— End quote
I agree with everything you have posted here! Darn it… i want REAL critique!!! LOL!
I viewed a post here one time where a lady asked for honest opinions and the doll was truly dreadfull!!! When she received honest and tactfull imput she quickly got an attitude and stated that she thought her doll was much prettier than some others out there etc. After seeing this it made me a lot more hesitant to leave an honest critique.
This is not a reflection on you or your work. I just think (in the other case) you shouldn’t ask for an opinion if you don’t want one.
And that Shannon is the heart of the problem. Why so many of us have given up on true critiques. IF YOU ASK FOR HELP OR OPINIONS…YOU MUST FIRST PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND BE READY FOR THE HELP THAT IS OFFERED!!! We will not just say negative things without offering positive reinforcement to fix the problem and most of us will also point out the good. Kim said this back on page 3 of this thread.
For now we will have to use the Reborn Showcase or Work In Progress as the vehicle for critique help. Make sure you put in capital letters in the subject line that you want HONEST OPINIONS PLEASE
we will step up and offer what we can. we will converse publicly or privately whatever you want. Let us know in your post which you prefer.
sounds good to me!! Thanks ladies!
Being on eBay and selling for such a long time… I’m ask for opinions and help all the time…
What I’ve learned is about 75% of the people asking questions don’t want a true answer… Be it here on a forum or on eBay… Whether is about posing, taking photos… or questions about what’s the best way to sell on eBay.
Most seem to want to hear their baby, auction, photos, etc are wonderful. Most don't really want to hear what
they need to do to improve the auction, photos, doll, etc … Yet they ask …
I’ve made people mad when I tell them what I use and how I do my auctions… They write me back and tell me about how they do it and what they like to use. I didn’t contact them, they contacted me and ask my opinion … I don’t know why they ask if they are not going to listen to what is being said and learn something from it???
So when people write and ask me how and why, I do what I do… I tell them what works for me or what I’ve learned… Some times for me this involves many hours composing emails to answer questions. I don’t mind at all trying to help someone… However it’s very disappointing when I get an answer and realize it was all a waste of time for me.
I can say I’ve had my share of posts without anyone replying…
Some times I do look at posts without replying… Sometimes I don’t have anything to add, or don’t have the time.
I don’t post sometimes because of the way our internet works. I can usually stay logged in but half the time when I try to post, the internet logs me out of the forum and I have to log back in. Problems with the Verizon wireless internet out here in the country - it goes to local only part of the time and if I add a post then, I get logged out of whatever site I’m trying to access. It can also take forever to get a new page up because I have to wait for it to go back to worldwide to switch pages.
As for critiques, if I don’t get an honest opinion, I can’t improve. On the other hand, I’m not guaranteeing I can fix the problem! Photos have been a pain to get the lighting right without using a flash and I haven’t had the patience to build a light box… I may just borrow my daughter’s camera that has a better macro on it next time too.
As for selling the ugly ones, I think people will buy some of the beginning dolls (since I’ve sold some!) but the artist (snicker, snicker) has to be honest and forthcoming and say that they are just starting and the baby isn’t perfect and the artist has to be willing to sell for what it cost to make the doll. Another reason for me deciding to go with the worse photos was that at least they could see the doll at its worst! Since I knew they weren’t that great, I didn’t feel like I was cheating them. And the next ones are better. So I will work harder on the photos.