It’s all so strange to me. I really thought everybody would welcome and value peer evaluation. (
— End quote
I thought that since there is already WIP section, and other section for showing finished babies, there is already opportunity to ask for critique. I must be really dumb but what other reason for posting pics there is than wanting to know what people think?
In any case, people do not stick to the theme of the various forums as it is.
— End quote
Sorry, the statement you quoted was (I thought) obviously one of resignation, so I’m not sure how you expect me to respond. If people want the status quo, that’s fine with me. Clearly, the WIP section is not working in the way you’ve suggested it should be, or I wouldn’t have proposed a ‘critique’ section to begin with.
It’s all so strange to me. I really thought everybody would welcome and value peer evaluation. (
— End quote
— End quote
I thought that since there is already WIP section, and other section for showing finished babies, there is already opportunity to ask for critique. I must be really dumb but what other reason for posting pics there is than wanting to know what people think?
In any case, people do not stick to the theme of the various forums as it is.
Sorry, the statement you quoted was (I thought) obviously one of resignation, so I’m not sure how you expect me to respond. If people want the status quo, that’s fine with me. Clearly, the WIP section is not working in the way you’ve suggested it should be, or I wouldn’t have proposed a ‘critique’ section to begin with.
— End quote
All what I was trying to say was that I think that critiquing is good, and should be encouraged, but I cannot see why we need another forum for that. I thought all forums are for discussing, for expressing our opinion. By having “Critique Forum” you are basically saying that in the rest of the sections people should not express their opinions.
When i first started reborning I would post my babies on various forums because I wanted to gauge people’s reaction. I do not understand what other reason is there for people posting their dolls, except maybe hoping somebody here will buy them.
I agree with you Ludmilla, but unfortunately most ladies posting photos of their babies would like to have it be a Mutual Admiration Society! There are some of us that would like honesty though?
Kathy - critique is from the eye of a potential buyer and is very valuable even if you are new at reborning. There are things that I like about certain techniques and I would love to do it on my own babies, and then there are the “dead” looking babies (Evon has done a couple of those recently) and I would not personally even thing of bidding on one of those. Don’t sell yourself short - your opinion on how a baby looks is important!
Guilty confession here - I usually skip the WIP and Reborn Showcase sections because there are only so many times I can reword “Cute baby” , adorable, sweet baby, great job, etc. Yet I’d would have a hard time critiqueing someone’s work for fear of upsetting them. But I would probably post my babies more, both in process and finished, if I knew I’d get really honest opinions so I could get better. Plus no one could be more brutal about my work than I am! To the point of thinking about buying a doll just to be able to compare mine to see if it measures up. It would be a lot easier to let some of you give me an opinion. Which is what the WIP section should be, not just for admiration. Maybe we all just need to start a rating system to let people know how much honesty we want. Like 1) I’m having a bad week and just want love so only positive, glowing remarks, 2) Be gentle with my baby, we are sort of fragile but ready to accept a challenge too, 3) I can take it…well, I can try to take it, 4) You can’t be harder to please than I am so tell me the truth, 5) I bet you can’t find anything positive to say about this baby, it’s so bad, except maybe to say that it is flammable and the fire out back is calling…
Wow, I posted on here but I don’t see it! I for one, am afraid to say too much because I don’t have much experience in today’s method of painting and I worry that others will think I am just saying things that I really don’t know. Then I also think that because I don’t know much, that I look at them with a different eye and maybe I see them with the same eye as a collector. Believe me, now that I am learning, I appreciate all of the time, experience and work it takes. I also can see where others, say on Ebay, have gone horribly wrong because of the expert advice I have received from all of you Reborn Angels! I long for the time I can post my doll and have all of you help guide me to make it into a baby. I say that if BB puts up a Critique Section anyone who post their baby there will know that they are to expect maybe harsh advice. Really, deep down, it’s only to make all of us better and I have not met a single soul here who would say anything to be mean or spiteful. Maybe the other sections can be for gentle guidance for those who are sensitive.
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I agree with Pia. Even if you are not 100% confident in your own skills, we all generally know what a baby should look like, and if it is wrong (though sometimes we may need a little help to make our own babies right). Any advice is valuable - whether you are a reborn buyer or seller. I still think this would be a helpful addition to many reborners on this forum. And by the way, I wouldn’t expect harsh advice here - just real advice, that would help the poster become better at their craft (after all, I do think the majority of reborners just innately have good, helpful hearts).
Guilty confession here - I usually skip the WIP and Reborn Showcase sections because there are only so many times I can reword “Cute baby” , adorable, sweet baby, great job, etc. Yet I’d would have a hard time critiqueing someone’s work for fear of upsetting them. But I would probably post my babies more, both in process and finished, if I knew I’d get really honest opinions so I could get better. Plus no one could be more brutal about my work than I am! To the point of thinking about buying a doll just to be able to compare mine to see if it measures up. It would be a lot easier to let some of you give me an opinion. Which is what the WIP section should be, not just for admiration. Maybe we all just need to start a rating system to let people know how much honesty we want. Like 1) I’m having a bad week and just want love so only positive, glowing remarks, 2) Be gentle with my baby, we are sort of fragile but ready to accept a challenge too, 3) I can take it…well, I can try to take it, 4) You can’t be harder to please than I am so tell me the truth, 5) I bet you can’t find anything positive to say about this baby, it’s so bad, except maybe to say that it is flammable and the fire out back is calling…
— End quote
Love your rating system!! I try to get that people’s feelings can be fragile. But it’s hard, because mine just aren’t (not to say that I would ever hurt anyone’s feelings, but* I* want the cold, hard truth for myself). The thing is, you can’t really learn much if everyone jut tells you how great you are all the time (evspecially if it’s not strictly true). Honesty is sometimes uncomfortable and often painful, but worth it in the end, I think.
Critiquing can go either way, even in the best of intentions and wording. I have received helpful input from others and input that was way off base. There have a been a few times I followed someone else’s advice against my own gut feeling and in the end I wound up ruining the baby. There have been other times I have gotten very valuable help that improved my baby immensely.
If anyone wants to read more on how long these same complaints have been going around, here is a thread from a couple of years ago on the same topic!
viewtopic.php?t=49431
Lots of forums have 2 sections. One “asking for critique” and one for “just showing off”. That way people can choose. If you are in progress and wanting help you can ask for critique and when you have finished your baby if you don’t want any advice you can put it in the showing off section. I personally prefer the separation.
This has been a very interesting topic (again) to read. I was just going to go find Becky’s thread and Pia beat me to it.
Over and over we see well intentioned members praise a baby that needs ‘just a little bit more work’’ No one’s feelings were hurt but the next baby probably won’t look
much better because the opportunity for a teaching moment passed. Helping/teaching doesn’t necessarily mean anyone is claiming to be an expert either they may just
have a different way of achieving the goal and the more tips and help we get the better artist we will become. That being said you are under no obligation to do what
is suggested…it is just that, a suggestion.
This was my answer back then and is still my answer now: Maybe in the REBORN SHOWCASE (and/or WIP) we could either put “HAVE A LOOK” or “PLEASE CRITIQUE” or something similar in our heading so people would know if
we REALLY want critiques or just pats on the back. We are all capable of being gentle and loving while we help and guide someone in an area that needs a bit of tweaking. I don’t think anyone is out to hurt anyones feelings. It
would be WONDERFUL if we had a sub-heading in the showcase area for this but until that day we can make it work with a bit of creativity. It would only take a few examples and everyone would pick up on the idea.
I think if you want critiquing it doesn’t have to be done publicly…you could ask for others to PM you with help…sometimes that is easier for people.