I decided to write to Liquitex to ask them if their Ultra Matte Gel can be used as a ground for vinyl. Someone had asked me this question after she had tried it on a test limb and thought it left a nice matte finish with a slight tooth that would be good for painting over. For the sake of the email I just referred to Soft Body paints since that is what they make but the Golden Fluid Paints would be the same thing in the alternate brand. Below I have copied and pasted in my email as well as the response I have gotten.
On Tue, Nov 29 at 2:06 PM , Anjsmiles wrote:
I am a reborn doll artist, which means I paint soft vinyl dolls to look like lifelike babies. I have been exploring the options for paints that would be compatible to vinyl dolls. It appears to me that the Soft Body Paints would be a good option due to their high pigment load and fluidity. I have found that the Liquitex Ultra Matte Gel is a product that works well in the paints to increase the matte appearance of the paints as well as paint adhesion. The desired outcome for a doll is that it not have sheen. I wanted to know if the Liquitex Ultra Matte Gel would be suitable to use as a ground for painting on vinyl? It seems to have a slight tooth that might work but I was not sure about using it full strength whether or not it would dry to a flexible finish? I would be applying it thinly pouncing it out with a sponge so as to leave a thin layer on the vinyl.
Hi Anjsmiles,
Thank you for your interest in Liquitex. Yes, it should be fine. Be sure to wipe the vinyl with a damp rag to remove any surface oils before applying any acrylic. We usually donāt recommend painting non porous surfaces but I have heard of quite a few people using Soft Body on vinyl dolls.
You may find that the Ultra Matte Medium is better for your needsā¦ It is fluid.
Thanks for using Liquitex.
Herman Reich
Technical Advisor
So from that you all can make your own judgements. If you are looking for a paint that specifically is made for painting on vinyl, Real Effects is the only one now on the market that I am aware of that is. They say they have added some sort of binders to their paints that makes them adhere to vinyl. They do have a limited color range but more could be made by mixing them together to create your own combinations.
Miracle Blend is sold for reborn doll painting but I am not aware whether or not they have added anything to the paints to make them specifically adhere to vinyl.
I am still not convinced that artist acrylics are not a suitable option as long as they are used with the correct mediums to increase adhesion. I think the biggest issue with painting on vinyl is the adhesion factor because the vinyl is not as porous. However, we know they paint on glass using acrylic paints by applying primers so why not vinyl?
Those who are die hard Genesis users have said the reason Genesis works so well is because it is oil based and vinyl being a petroleum product is as well. That may well be a factor but even still the vinyl is not āabsorbingā the Genesis paints either. I have stripped many a Genesis painted kit and the paints come right off and the vinyl is not stained underneath. That tells me it is not absorbed into the vinyl but rather sits on top of it just like any other paint. Going back to Genesis is an option if I had to in order to keep making dolls but I am still not ready to do that. I am hoping to either find another solution or that someone else will come out with a paint comparable to Baby FX before I have to make a decision.
I found this interesting. I have been using the Golden clear Gesso mixed with a little bit of water as a ground on my vinyl kits. It seems to work fine. Maybe I shouldnāt be adding water though. https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo_prepsupp
If you really like your Gesso you can mix your Gesso with a thinning medium that also acts as a ground such as the Golden Fluid Matte Medium I just got. This stuff looks like milk runs like it too so it would thin your Gesso out in the place of water and not loose your adhesion properties.
So I managed to try a couple things today even though I have been sick.
1st test: I took Momās baby I have yet to paint to give him his caramel skin layer I do on the BB kits. Normally I mix Baby FX with Golden Glazing liquid and little water. Instead this time I mixed the paint about 50/50 with Glazing Liquid and half Golden Fluid Matte Mediumāno water. It went on about the same. Still has sheen but maybe not quite as tacky of a product mix. So it extended the Glazing Liquid without adding water but did not matte it down a lot.
2nd test: Logan kit I am planning to test the Golden paints on.
Mixed up Ultra Matte Gel about 50/50 with Golden Fluid Matt Medium
Did not measureā¦just eyeballed it. LOL
This was about like thick cool whip when mixed.
I applied it all over the kit as a primer. I found brushing it on and then pouncing with a wedge worked best for me. You have to work fast as it dries quckly. The end result is totally matte and leaves some tooth grit feel.
It seems mixing those 2 you get the best of both but I did notice my mix was getting thicker towards the end.
I suspect the Matte Liquid actually has some water in it that was evaporating out. The reason I mixed the two products together is that I wanted to make the Ultra Matte Gel more fluid to apply hoping it would help me to get a thinner coat and also since the matting liquid does say it is a good ground thought I would mix.
Gonna let it all sit a day or so now and revisit later.
Sorry to hear youāre not feeling well Angie. I am going to copy and paste this and try something similar on my next kit. Iāve been reading painting tutorials online for the past couple of hours. I need to order some more acrylic colours before I can try it out. It would be so nice not to have to bake anymore. Feel better soon, hugs, Gail
Update. Both kits I worked on feel tacky today. i think the Fluid Matte Medium may be the culprit. The Logan kit I used it on mixed with the Ultra Matte Gel seems the worst. He was really tacky
and no longer matte looking. Momās baby has sheen like Glazing Liquid always does but has a slight tacky feel which it sometimes does anyways with the Glazing Liquid until you add more paint layers but I think I will strip just to be on the safe side.
Thanks for the update, although Iām sorry to hear this as I have a bottle of the matte medium to try, @anjsmiles. I typically force dry between layers. Did you do that, or were the parts just left to air dry?
I tested out using Liquitex ultra matte gel in a thin layer directly onto the vinyl as a primer base on a super soft vinyl test piece. After sitting for several days it is not sticky at all but left a nice texture that I believe will help the paint grab onto and itās very flexible so it did not budge when squeezed and bent. I do believe the mixing of the two mediums may have caused the sticky problem because using the UMG alone did not have this issue. I am still testing this as a base so once I have had a chance to actually test painting on it I will be sure to update you guys
Iām also testing using the golden liquid matte medium in my paints to help adhesion and I have had no problems with it being sticky or going tacky. I really believe it may be the use of two different mediums at the same time. You should still be able to use what you have with no problems as long as you just use that one medium in your mixes.
Thank you for the update, @sweetiepieapril. I have the matte medium here, but have not had time to test anything because kids. Iām interested in updates on your primer as well. Hope it works and stops the paint from vanishing.
Using the folk art as a primer and sealer is fine as I have heard many people have success with that. I on the other hand have not had much luck with it because I paint mostly the super soft vinyl and the glass and tile medium isnāt quite flexible enough but works fine on firmer vinyl. As Angie explained, When you add UMG or another Medium to the soft body paints it has binders in them that act as a glue to better help keep the paint intact when thinned. You can use the Liquitex soft body paints with the UMG and thin them with retarder and/or water.
Some of you may be familiar with the awesome painted hair work of Jen Len. She can be found on FB and also does LiveNow videos of her painting in progress and just to chat in general with her collectors. Someone put me onto her link and I watched one of her live sessions. I was very surprised to see that she paints with all acrylics. I had thought her hair was Genesis because it is so very detailed but it is painted with acrylics as well. I did learn from asking a couple questions during her live session that she seales with Genesis Matte Varnish. I also noticed in the session she was using Liquitex Basic Paints and mixing them with colors of little bottles of craft paints like Apple Barrel and water. I asked her during the session if she primes her vinyl with anything and she said not other than washing it. It appeared from watching her video that she was thinning her paints with only distilled water. She says she boils her own water to make water for her paints. I wrote to her yesterday and asked her how she is able to keep her paints from fading and did she ever add anything to them other than water. These were her responses:
Genesis matt varnish works very well over acrylics I had never had a baby fade on me.
I use 99 cent cheap acrylic paint water and GMV thatās it
So there you go people! I am flabbergasted but somehow it works for her. She has done prototype babies and is well known. Maybe I have been overthinking things? I do not know?
Iām interested in updates on your primer as well. Hope it works and stops the paint from vanishing.