GHSP coming off with matte varnish

I don’t remember if I mentioned this on here before. But for those of you who seal your vinyl with GHS matte varnish, do you ever find that it removes some of the paint? I apply mine to the vinyl like lotion and then pounce it smooth with a cosmetic wedge (gives it a slight skin like texture that is soft). When I pounce there is slight color that comes off on the sponge. With my current doll, it took several layers off part of her lips. I make sure that I heat set the paints at the proper temps for the proper amount of time in my NuWave. And I don’t understand why this is happening. It happens mostly on my BB kits. I don’t think it’s happened to this extent on any of the German vinyl kits that I’ve done. There has always been a tint of color come off on the wedge, even with the German kits but never this bad.

Does anyone else experience this?? Thanks!

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No, that never happened to me. But then again, I only use matte varnish if it is really needed, which is pretty much never nowadays. But when I 1st started I had to use it on just about every one :smile: I have dolls that my granddaughter has been playing with now for over 4 years, and there is no sign of damage to the paintwork, and even mohair on those rooted is standing up well.

Maybe you do not bake at high enough temperatures?

Do you give your kits a ‘bath’ before painting? If you don’t want to wait for them to dry you can always wipe them well with alcohol swabs or just rubbing alcohol…That may be the problem???

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I would like to know how much thinner and how much matte varnish do you use when you seal the baby when it is finished. I find everyone seems to be doing things differently and I have had the matte finish get flakey after a bake and I realize it needed thinning. What is a good ratio of part thinner, part varnish?

I mix Matte and Satin in a 50/50 mix with no thinner. When I was using Matte Sealer, I mixed 3 parts Matte and 1 part Genesis Thinning Medium.

Ludmila, I bake them high enough. The kit before this one was accidentally baked to 320 and the paint still came off a little when applying the sealer. It happens mostly with the BB kits. I’ve had problems with oilier BB kits even though I wash and dry them thoroughly before painting. I’m puzzled.

Starr, I always wash them in hot soapy water (in Ajax) with a tooth brush and then wipe down with alcohol. Not sure why it happens. It’s been worse lately.

Rachel, that happened to me a little with the glass and tile medium when I did air dry.

dguerrera, I use the GHS matte varnish straight out of the jar. I mix it in my hands until it is like lotion and then wipe it all over the piece, and then pounce it with a cosmetic wedge until smooth. There is usually a slight tint of color on the wedge after doing this. And at times like this, more comes off usually on the lips, toes, and fingertips, when it does. It’s happened regardless of how I’ve applied the matte.

Amy, maybe I will try the 50/50 matte and satin, and see if it’s better.

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That is weird. My matte varnish is about 6 years old, and so is most of my paints. My stash of kits is more than year old (except Mathis and Denver Rose), so if the problem is with the more recent vinyls, paints or varnish I would not have come across it.

Do you use the powders or do you add linseed oil, or anything else to your paints? Have you recently changed to a different thinners?

It happens regardless of the thinner. I stopped using linseed last year. I haven’t used any powders. I’ve talked to a few others who have experienced BB kits with an oiliness to them, as I have. It seems that some kits are still oily in spots after washing them well. My matte is only two years old. Has GHSPs changed the formula?

Over the years I had some kits that were oily and would not take the paint. The thing is, if the vinyl is leaching oil then wiping with alcohol or washing it does not make much difference, it just wipes off the surface but the oil will keep coming out of it. I found that sometimes happened after I stripped the kit. Using acetone can damage the vinyl and make it oily. I also had faulty kits which had oily patches. Doesn’t matter what anybody says the paints do not stain the vinyl (with the exception of Genesis blue), they sit on the top and need to adhere to the vinyl, and then each consecutive layer to the layer bellow. If this problem was due to the oiliness of the kit you would see the shiny oiliness. That is what was happening to my kit with the oily spot.

I still think it is a curing problem. Are you sure that your thermometer is accurate? I have a whole collection, and I know that some were way out, even the expensive one. I have seriously overheated some parts, they were as soft as jelly on the verge of melting, and the thermometer was showing it is the correct temperature. That one went to the bin :frowning:

Yes, they did, sometime ago. I did not pay much attention at that time as I already had large tub, and hardly ever used it.

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Ludmila, I have the NuWave Pro Plus where you set the temperature you want rather than with the Pro were you get a range by entering a level. The temp I set them to cure at is 255, since 250 is all that’s required for a convection oven to cure the paint. My thermometer always reads exactly to the temp I set the oven. Even when kits have been way over baked at a very high temp, this still has happened. It’s worse on some kits than others.

I never used the older GHS products as I started reborning with GHS in September of 2013, and I heard that some formulas had been changed. I’m guessing the jar I purchased in 2013 (it’s almost empty now) is the newer formula maybe. Not sure what to make of all this. I has happened mostly with the BB kits. I’ve done about 5 German vinyl kits and a half dozen La Newborns, and the paint has never come off in layers with the matte like it does on the BB kits.

OK, so you are using paints and matte varnish that you have been using for years and the only difference are the kits? However, what ever is the problem, it is still problem of curing. If the paint was cured but not adhering to the vinyl then it would peel, not rub off. As it is just rubbing off it sounds like it is not set. Can you paint and bake a part, and then see first if the paint comes of when rubbed with wet q-tip, and then with q-tip dipped in thinners. If not, see if the varnish will take it off.

Also bear in mind that the genesis website only refers to paintings, and specifically talks about canvas, which would mean that he hot air would be heating the painting from both sides. It is quite possible that thick vinyl may not heat up to the required temperature for the required time and therefore set the paint.

Ludmila, I will do some tests on a part when I start my next kit. I’m going to take a break from BB kits for a little bit and work on Larry Blick. It seems rather hard to tell if the parts are heated enough if the thermometer reads 255. I suppose it’s possible the vinyl is not heating all the way through. I just know this happens mostly with the BB kits. Not sure why. They are also the kits that resist paint sometimes, especially on the toe and finger pads.

Anita, I doubt they’re being overbooked. I’m careful to keep the temp in range and always use a thermometer. What puzzles me the most is it has been mostly BB kits.

I was thinking if the vinyl is thick the parts might not heat as much … I am just trying to think of reasons why the paint would not cure.

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Me, too. I hope it can be solved. Is it possible that some BB kits are thicker than others?